Couple of guys from our discord tried auto-attacking Ludrigan Vindicators and they were mediocre by Vindicator’s standards to say the least. It works best as a hybrid that stacks Electrocute from totems + Chilling rounds (although it’s pretty glassy).
Problem with most ranged archetypes is that they are effectively melee builds but with less damage and much worse defenses. Stronghold Purifier is obviously an exception since you can use it with a strong heavy armor set and it has a shield.
It seems we have reached opposite conclusions so the truth must be somewhere in the middle. There are gunslinger builds that are good and others meh.
I’ll try to test Dagallon today instead of pierce pally
I think having almost no gunslinger builds in the build section is a good indicator of where the truth is. Remember how many gunslingers used to pop up in AoM era? Nowadays builders don’t even bother with that.
I’d rather know hands on personally.
Because if by any chance Z agreez and buffs FS, and there are builds that were strong to begin with, then OP builds appear and things get complicated with nerfs.
It’s worth trying first
Didn’t you see my post?
There even is a build linked inside it. See the stats on it and tell me if it’s a glass cannon.
I just haven’t posted it as a build on the builds section because I’m not experienced with posting builds but the thread regarding how the build came to existence is up.
I think currently the strongest FS build is my melee (!) Shieldbreaker. Which says a lot about the state of ranged FS.
I’ve looked at your Purifier and I am honestly not sure it would be able to farm endgame content consistently. Low physical resist, low da, low slow resist and it doesn’t look like it has enough damage to compensate for that. Maybe you can post a video and prove me wrong tho, I don’t know.
I was talking more about Gunslingers not melee(who also has transmuter)
Funny story, my Stronghold build was leveled as RF paladin cause i had RF fever… All was fun and well until late unltimate and SR especially. Then i tried with FS again and i was very suprised it works so much better.
So I completely redesign it it
I want to keep my arguments about slingers not melee because FS works much better with inquis wps than FS works ithe all melee wps as inquis WPS make Explosive strike and brmstone very strong
What endgame content are you talking about?
You telling the build lackes in Phys res, DA, damage and slow res is a bit short sighted… A build which relies on 6 different WPS types surely seems lacking in damage on the first look… have you seen the build’s ADCTH? 17% ADCTH with +70% crit damage buffed is no joke on an auto attacker build… not to mention 3.5K OA, 2.8K DA buffed and almost 3K armor on a ranged build…
Even when I didn’t have the head, chest and legs pieces and different shoulders and hand pieces I could beat SR 55. Now that I have all the items SR 65 is easy and I haven’t pushed further because I’m a bit burnt out with grim dawn.
But the argument about buffing FS is still in it’s place, building a ranged FS build is still a bit finicky.
It does work much better with Inquisitor WPS because it spreads Brimstone infinitely, I know. But somehow melee Shieldbreaker is stronger.
Update with your Dagallon experiments, would be very interesting to see what it can do. I think not much, but I have been wrong about builds before.
Crucible 150-170 is the best metric for endgame builds we have atm. Shattered Realm - not so much.
Abstract metrics “we” have made for ourselves which are RNG based are not good IMO… It’s like SR metrics people have set for themselves like 75+ shards clear time which is again completely RNG as Z has said time and time again and should not be a standard for measuring build’s capability IMO.
Talk campaign metrics which are same for everyone on every occasion and then we are talking.
Crucible is probably the best test, cause RNG element is lower than SR, but have all the Nemesis and multiple types of enemies. Every single boss in campaign will have strong resistances and skills against certain build and dummies don’t fight back. So Crucible is the real way to determine strength. But in campaign you can try Mad Queen and Lokkar.
Depends on what you look for. Crucible is more of a dps check and if you pass, you herd monsters as efficiently as possible to get the best time (mutators aside)
But yeah, for simplicity sake i’ll test Dagallon in crucible not SR
For melee i’m not surprised because RF has charges. Exceptions are barthollem for 2h that make FS an absolute pleasure to play with melee.
I’m also curious about Lightning FS with Stormheart. Is sabo best or some other combo with more rr and improvised WPS…
My argument about FS buff is still in place again.
But tell me something. Aren’t playing games to enjoy them? Some people like min maxing for the pleasure of having the best clear times I get it, but what then? Most people don’t even get to that point and start over. What is there to gain after you have all the items for your build? The game’s content is exhausted after that and you should play a new character to get the satisfaction of leveling and accomplishment again…
Correct my point of view if I’m wrong.
Different players enjoy different parts in the game. I played hundreds of hours without going to any end game, but now I pretty much just create multiple characters, sometimes not even playing them 
There is no challenge in Campaign for endgame builds. Celestial bosses are a one-time gimmick and require specific builds and a lot of pre-buffing so they don’t count. So we have Crucible or Shattered realm left as a metric for endgame builds. SR is too random and it caters to very specific types of builds.
Crucible is not the best example of balanced challenge, but it’s the best that we have got. It checks both DPS (single target and aoe), defenses, mobility, versatility, etc.
It seems that you haven’t looked at my build, mate. It does not have Righteous Fervor.
You are absolutely right here. But we are discussing endgame.
i actually did look at your build the day you posted it and right before i started playing again i think.
It was the fact that you said that Sheldbreaker is stronger that made me misinterpret. Not that it’s your fault, it’s my confusion
Do you mean that a shieldbreaker is stronger than inquis wps +FS?
I think that that particular build of mine is stronger than most if not all ranged FS builds at that moment. I would be happy to be proved wrong tho.
EDIT: And if you meant Shieldbreakers in general - their strongest builds are much stronger than ranged WPS Inquisitors, but they are all casters so I am not sure if it’s a relevant comparison.
It’s a bold statement yours 
i’d never be so sure about such a thing. it’s FS transmuter vs shotgun/multiple shots wps basically. You just need the right build in my mind
I certainly won’t prove it wrong with Stronghold since i intend to do SR builds (save for crazy exceptions like dagallon and new Desolator that are tailor made for having fun with large mobs)
But then will dagallon end up not being validated if it has good results cause it has pass through mod?
Shieldbreakers are the shit anyway. Been saying it since launch and been hoping for it since before testing