So i was looking around GT trying to figure which options we had for default attack replacers and suddenly was unsure about a number of points.
First i’d like to recap all the default attack replacers that exist. If i’m not mistaken we have 10 that can be grouped into 3 categories :
Charge based attacks. 6 in total, increase in power as you attack. Include Savagery, Righteous Fervor, Belgothian’s Strikes, Runic Bolts, Troll Rage and Beronath’s Fury
Bonus damage. 3 in total. Those just deal >100% weapon damage and add flat damage on top. They are Fire Strike, Touch of Chaos and Fleshwarped Strikes.
Special attack. There is only Cadence in this category. Adds a very strong attack after a number of unmodified basic attacks.
So far so good (unless i missed some), now for some questions.
I noticed Beronath Fury always strikes with both weapons (at least the tooltip lists damage from both weapons). Is it true for every default attack replacer, making those a must have for any dual wield build?
For charge based attacks, the first charges are low % (often 30% for the first attack). Does that % efficiency modify the entire attack or just the bonuses? For instance if i consider Shard of Beronath that deals 114% weapon damage, 33 elemental and couple other bonuses. Will the first attack deal only 0.3114 = 34% Weapon Damage resulting in very low damage until you have charged up the attack or is 114% weapon damage actually 14% bonus over normal weapon damage and so the first attack would deal 100+140.3=104% weapon damage?
How do all of those interact with WPS? I know that charge based attacks work with WPS and multiply those based on their charge level while Cadence special attack doesn’t proc WPS because it’s not a “default attack”. What about “bonus damage” attacks? For instance, in the case of a Shieldbreaker attacking with Fire Strike can i still proc Smite and if i can, how is the %weapon damage for a Fire Strike+Smite attack calculated and can Explosive/Static Strike and Brimstone proc off such attack?
When DW, you have a chance to hit with both weapons simultaneously. I believe it’s a 1 in 3 chance to hit with your right hand, your left hand, or both hands.
IIRC, this is what makes DW cadence so deadly, as hitting with both weapons counts as a double charge.
This is also the reason why you shouldn’t saturate your WPS pool with cadence.
The 30% refers to an additional 30%. But as jabrixone pointed out, to make VF viable (in so far as elite builds are concerned), you need about 30k sheet damage.
Yes, i know how it works for basic attacks. My question was about attack replacers. Does Beronath Fury (or any other replacer) always strike with both weapons (since the tooltip lists both weapons damage) or does it obey the same rules as basic attacks and has a chance to strike with right, left or both.
The 30% refers to an additional 30%. But as jabrixone pointed out, to make VF viable (in so far as elite builds are concerned), you need about 30k sheet damage.
So a softcapped Savagery at 115% (8 charges) would deal 322% Weapon Damage each strike (150+150*1.15). This seems very strong when you compare to Cadence that does 420% but every 3rd attack :eek:
Beronath doesn’t auto-hit with both weapons. There should be the word “or” between “main hand” and “off-hand” damage or some other indication of the fact that some skills don’t hit with both weapons every time (as opposed to, say, inquisitor wps that do). You have 33.(3)% chance to hit with both weapons on every un-wps-ed strike, same with left and right weapon respectively, just like with a naked attack.
When dummy testing the first hit with Savagery is always weaker than a naked default attack. So it is logical to assert that x% on the charges refer to total dmg output of the skill. If it only refered to Savagery bonuses all Savagery hits would be stronger than a naked hit. Another, imo, inconsistency of skill descriptions as they clearly state that charges refer to bonuses.
Just like “charged” aa, “added damage” aa stack weapon damage with wps multiplicatively. As for Firestrike nodes, afaik they behave differently depending on wps and whether you’re melee or ranged. AFAIK multiple activations of the nodes due to wps AoE is reserved for ranged (Brimstone is for sure, not sure about others). Might be the reason why even the mighty N&O don’t help saboteurs escape the meme class status and for melee you’re usually better off using Beronath than drown dozens of points in Firestrike. Just a surmise, though.
You have 50% chance to hit with both hands and 25% each single hand, thats true for every default attack replacers.
Charges modify both WD and flat damage on the skill. Beronath’s Fury on the 1st attach deals 114%WD*30%+ 33 ele * 30% = 34% WD and 10 elemental damage. Percentage damage on every stack is same.
If the WPS hits multiple targets, and the default replacer hits multiple targets, how many targets are hit? For how much damage?
Though that may be a hypothetical question.
This. But wps has an influence on this. I believe it is such:
0-25 one hand
26-50 other hand
51-100 both.
WPS substitutes from 0+. So minimum 50% wps means one-hand attacks are overwritten by wps - and depend on the specific wps mechanic (one-hand or both).
If you have 50%+ wps that are always both hand, then you will always hit with both hands.
(WPS is the real power of default attack replacers - I wish this was also the case with normal attacks, but oh-well…must be a coding thing).
Yes, i already looked at the Advanced Mechanics which is why i didn’t ask about WPS effect on dual wield but about replacer effect. I didn’t see attack replacers actually mentionned in the Advanced Mechanics thread (unless it’s lost somewhere in the 26 pages).
OK. Another one while we are at it Going on damage conversion this time.
Let’s say i have a Shieldbreaker using Blazeheart (Budget Shieldbreaker idea). BH has 100% physical to fire conversion to Fire Strike. That conversion isn’t passed to WPS (those would have to receive a specific WPS transmuter), it was discussed before and isn’t the point of my question. When is that conversion applied?
Option 1. BH does Physical + Fire damage. Attacking with Fire Strike converts that to fire making weapon damage purely fire. Smite then procs from Fire Strike, multiplying my fire weapon damage by 1.36 at 10/10 and adding flat fire and physical (which won’t be converted).
Option 2. Fire Strike triggers Smite before FS transmuter is applied. Weapon damage is Physical and Fire in that case and since Smite doesn’t convert my damage, the physical part will stay unconverted each time Smite triggers.
That could be a big difference in the end result
EDIT : Yep, BH has 15% global phys>fire conversion which i ignored in the discussion above to simplify it as i know that part will work on everything.
I may be wrong as I have not accurately tested and confirmed the numbers, but I believe:
When the wps is activated from the default attack replacer (DAR), all conversion to the DAR skill applies to the wps. This will mean that not only does the %wpn get converted, but also the flat. So the physical of smite would also see conversion from the FS skill mod.
Just confirming what ya_ said about Savagery in #2 after some testing, since it pertained to my interests…
The charge level is multiplicative with the weapon damage listed in the tooltip, so on the 1st charge it is 30%*150% weapon damage (at softcap) total, not in addition to a base attack.
Not quite. When game makes pool 1-100, it shares that pool equally between WPS and non-WPS attacks, so if u have 50% WPS you also still have 12.5%
right hand, 12.5% left hand and 25% both hands default attack.
Thanks all. Probably the last one. I try to have a full understanding of the question cause at this point i might as well try to put all this in a guide. Regarding the Shaman’s Upheaval ability. It’s wording is very similar to a WPS skill except that it triggers only from critical hits with 100% chance. How does it interact with regular WPS skills?
It’s indeed a special WPS and thus can’t trigger in addition to another WPS. When you land a crit it triggers Upheaval. Whenever you land a normal hit the game checks for your regular WPS but you never get both.
It’s indeed a special WPS that triggers only from crits on a “default attack”. Whenever a regular WPS procs you can’t proc Upheaval because it’s no longer a default attack. If you crit with an attack that’s not a WPS, then Upheaval procs.
It’s something different that triggers in addition to the normal attack, be it a WPS or a regular attack.
Thanks for the clarification and correction. I had actually read the opposite (can’t find where), obviously it was wrong. Makes those even better
Is that GrimDamage tool part of the development tools or is it a 3rd party tool? (can’t find it in the utilities section)
Going on damage conversion this time.