Questions about default attack replacers

[korsar]

GD mechanics is so deep, deep as the Abyss

[Salazar]

GD mechanics is so deep, deep as the Abyss
https://youtu.be/v4O9rMQ-TlU?t=1316

That’s for sure. Every time I think I understand this game, another one of these threads comes up and I learn that everything I know is wrong.

[BB_Shockwave]

I wish the game showed some indication what counts as default attacks and what cannot trigger them. Like, Blad Arc has no cooldown and can be used as a default attack, but it cannot trigger passive activated attack skills apparently…

[sir_spanksalot]

Crate has poor tooltip description, but as I’ve mentioned several times, I’m actually kinda glad it’s confusing?

It really helps foster discussion in the grand lil’ community we have

[Xeroze]

Yes, i already looked at the Advanced Mechanics which is why i didn’t ask about WPS effect on dual wield but about replacer effect. I didn’t see attack replacers actually mentionned in the Advanced Mechanics thread (unless it’s lost somewhere in the 26 pages).

OK. Another one while we are at it Going on damage conversion this time.

Let’s say i have a Shieldbreaker using Blazeheart (Budget Shieldbreaker idea). BH has 100% physical to fire conversion to Fire Strike. That conversion isn’t passed to WPS (those would have to receive a specific WPS transmuter), it was discussed before and isn’t the point of my question. When is that conversion applied?

1. Option 1. BH does Physical + Fire damage. Attacking with Fire Strike converts that to fire making weapon damage purely fire. Smite then procs from Fire Strike, multiplying my fire weapon damage by 1.36 at 10/10 and adding flat fire and physical (which won’t be converted).
2. Option 2. Fire Strike triggers Smite before FS transmuter is applied. Weapon damage is Physical and Fire in that case and since Smite doesn’t convert my damage, the physical part will stay unconverted each time Smite triggers.

That could be a big difference in the end result

EDIT : Yep, BH has 15% global phys>fire conversion which i ignored in the discussion above to simplify it as i know that part will work on everything.

Anyone has the link for the discussion regarding conversion on Firestrike or other default attack replacers not carrying over to WPS? that makes some conversion builds like aether savagery much less alluring if that’s the case. I was wondering the same question since i’ve been running the new dagallon helm for flat chaos damage shenanigans and was wondering whether seal of the void’s wps chaos damage gets converted as well (luckily, not a crucial component of the build).

[sir_spanksalot]

Anyone has the link for the discussion regarding conversion on Firestrike or other default attack replacers not carrying over to WPS? that makes some conversion builds like aether savagery much less alluring if that’s the case. I was wondering the same question since i’ve been running the new dagallon helm for flat chaos damage shenanigans and was wondering whether seal of the void’s wps chaos damage gets converted as well (luckily, not a crucial component of the build).

Not quite. When game makes pool 1-100, it shares that pool equally between WPS and non-WPS attacks, so if u have 50% WPS you also still have 12.5%
right hand, 12.5% left hand and 25% both hands default attack.

Wrong. Conversion does pass.
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=714517#post714517

Poor, sweet Korsar… :rolleyes:

[Flying_Potato]

AFAIK, No default replacer which can hit multiple targets (i.e. cadence) can stack with a WPS.

I think the only exception is dagallons/vortex of souls where the bullet penetrates enemies.

This means that the WPS will proc on each target. Things like ABB will also proc on each target penetrated.

EDIT: It’s also worth noting that unlike melee ABB, when DW with guns, ABB attacks with both weapons.

https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/11177

Firestrike but with multiple targets hit.

Now how the hell does that work?!

(Crate, please add an area with closer together target dummies so that we can test this kind of thing more easily!)

[ya1]

So, dw, it’s left 25%, right 25%, both 50% and not 33%, 33%, 33%? Is this official? It’s hard to notice on melee unless you test for it but remember leveling dw guns without inquisitor WPS and I think I wasn’t getting dw strikes half the time…

And I did melee dw Cadence charging test once. Both with WPS and without double charging Cadence was happening noticeably less than 50% of the time.

This thread confuses the shit out me…

[korsar]

I can’t find values for dual wielding in game files, but people did some tests.

[Xeroze]

Poor, sweet Korsar… :rolleyes:

I dunno how I missed that. That makes the dagallon helm look even better now. Thanks a ton for the testing korsar!

[Xeroze]

https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/11177

Firestrike but with multiple targets hit.

Now how the hell does that work?!

(Crate, please add an area with closer together target dummies so that we can test this kind of thing more easily!)

For the ranged version(https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8737) Pass through effect goes for each individual projectile of wps. Brimstone, static n explosive strike goes 100% per bullet on every single target that the bullet passes through. That means a gazillion brimstone fragments flying around when u storm spread through a crowd of 10 monsters. Which can drop ur framerate. I posted a build around this a few days ago in the builds forum.i assume the same goes for the melee version of pass through i.e. Hitting in arc would be similar aka each hit will trigger one explosion n brimstone? Might be different since I rmb mechanically they differ. I would test it a bit when I get home later.

[Lord_Yanaek]

Thanks again everyone. I didn’t expect to learn that much when i first opened the thread

I wish the game showed some indication what counts as default attacks and what cannot trigger them. Like, Blad Arc has no cooldown and can be used as a default attack, but it cannot trigger passive activated attack skills apparently…

The wording of the abilities is what gives you the information, but yeah, it’s not that obvious which is one of the reason why i’m trying to write some sort of guide now that i have a better understanding of the subject (and while waiting for FG :rolleyes:)