Rat Devotion dot needs a big boost

The Rat devotion is weak for dot, even for T1.

The dot is really low. 40+60 = 100 over 5s = 20/s. I think the dot should be ~5x this.

Poison dot on equipment procs tend to be > 2-5x this amount and one typical skill point increase is often 10/s.

Rat colors are decent and it fits a poison theme, but I typically put those 4 points anywhere else if I can - unless I really need to scrounge an extra devotion point. There are a lot of alternative T1s for these particular colors that provide better benefits, even for a dedicated acid/poison build.

TLDR: increase Rat dot by ~ 5x damage.

(I had forgotten to post about this issue ages ago)

Are you aware that Rat needs 5 devotion points to be activated and you can boost the damage by % damage? You say boost it 5x, so it’d be 100 per second, for a level 10 - 20, it’s a ton. Add % damage to that, that’s 780 damage over 6.5 seconds from Rat alone. You’ll be able to hit one target with a normal blow and run to another one, you would not even need much damage for 90% of enemies.

Nope /10char. Rat is about affinity gain rather that dmg.

Hmm. Maybe the problem is that the dot just scales horribly.

I can see the point that at lower difficulties it may seem strong. But at higher levels this 20/s flat dot is mostly irrelevant.

And unlike a OA/DA/resistance, etc. or proc, it doesn’t scale well at all.

*The dot could be changed to a better-scaling benefit, such as % spirit.

In my opinion, this DoT is quite good with other sources of poisons. For example, Deathguard set and the poison for Bone Harvest, it’s a nice addition (although, I still agree more with Ptiro-something).


I think the pure infinity-gain argument is a poor one.

There are other 4-pointers that give so much more than 5 colors, such as viper. Even a 4 color or 5 same-color T1 devotion typically gives better scaling. Some devotions are rather stagnant due to very poor inherent scaling and it’s a bit boring to see the same typical devotion paths every time. T1s should be interesting for more than just a great proc or a shorter color path to something else.

I think that changing the dot to % spirit would be the most appropriate tweak for Rat. Spirit increases poison dot damage and is getting a small tweak in FG, as well.

And I completely disagree about 20 trivial flat dot making a significant impact at latter stages, but I also don’t spend much(any) time in lower difficulties and it may be a ymmv thing.

Changing the poison DoT to % spirit would mean 5% at most. This would actually decrease the amount of poison DoT damage you deal at end game.

I think you overestimate how useful + damage % bonuses are at the the end game and underestimate the value the seemingly low poison DoT.
20/sec means 400-500/sec at end game with damage bonuses, which quite good for a single T1 devotion that also gives good affinity.
A +5% spirit on the other hand would mean a damage bonus of around 15-25%. Considering you should already have a 2000% damage bonus or higher this would be negligible.

I think rat is fine as it is.

The numbers benefits of spirit are: .33% to magic damage and duration (and some energy).

Even in an end-gamish example with as low as 500 spirit -which would be almost no points put into spirit:

5% = 25% boost

This applies to all magical-type damage effects. All spells benefits (skills and devotions).

Currently rat has 20 flat dot applied to weapon and +40% only to poison. Since acid is usually paired with poison, I think even with A/P you’ll see equality or more in terms of overall damage.

As a player that loves WD and any kind of damage (mostly received), I think the poison damage is way better. Sure, spirit would boos all magic damage, but think about it vastly. The maximum amount of spirit a melee character needs is 400 (to just get jewelry, it’s actually about 390, but let’s say 400). So, if you’ll gain 5% spirit, you’ll still rush for 400 spirit. Let’s say the 5% is 15 spirit, you’ll gain like two attribute points, which will then be spent to physique (or cunning, but in the end you’ll then take 2 points from cunning to physique, you get the idea anyway).

So, the 5% spirit would affect only… arcanists, because you’ll still get 726 spirit for any caster for the off-hand, and arcanist will boost that value even further with its passive.

In the end, exchanging the poison for spirit would just make it weaker (but more useful for stat points). Why would a rat increase your mind power when it spreads disease?

If you are going melee, then you want flat non-dot on your weapon rather than dot, in order to advantage speed. So it would actually be more beneficial to melee.

If you look at other constellations with flat DoT damage, you’d see that they also hover around 15/s (give or take 5), Few T3’s go a bit higher. Rat’s numbers are fine.

I think the DoT is fine, but the Acid&Poison resistance could be changed to another resistance, seeing as most acid/poison builds tend to have lots of it from other sources.