Well, looking at what last patch did to 2h melee it’s understandable. Those times were really dark fot those builds
I wanted to give you the link to grimtools with my warder but right now tere is some server error or sth 
Anyways, it’s savagery plus totem plus wind devil from attack skills, rest is for defense; and devotions are (those on the offensive side) - tempest, ultos, elemental storm and I had tsunami but I think I got rid of it. I’d had to check. And these proced (spelling here?) all the time, to an extent I didn’t see some enemies at all. Like I never saw the Iron Maiden Nemesis if I rememer correctly her name, just her name and the red sword of cursor. And no kiting. Just hit her on the head, like other monsters and mobs and no kiting.
So, yes it’s DoT, I cast stuff, but I also melee a lot with that particular char.
But perhaps that doesn’t count, as you said.
Ok, with me. I am no expert. I just describe what allowed me to beat the crucible.
Chill out, man, I was wrong :sad: Sry.
Woman, actually 
Yeah, I’ll chill out 
I need to finally check that warder after patch, cause I still haven’t done it. Funny me.
Ya know, I’m still surprised JoV’s “swan song” do-everything build wasn’t mentioned:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67380
For 1.0.6.0 it would probably need little to no changes.
Is dankos forcewave build(no.8) still alright after the the new patch? Since i heard the DA nerf changes how a few builds are set up. Really down to try a forceweave build after all the effort ive done with DW builds so far.
No, we don’t! I have a burn commando and he suffered from this nerf! Give me my good Warpfire back, devs!
I was sure you will advertise your glass cannon again
Maybe now it doesn’t rely on Aether Clusters to survive! I’ll give it a try. Again!
I tried it before patch, it was bad in 150-170.
Now it’s a different story. I will get to it some day, too many builds require testing now. Plus new sets came out, I think many people are interested what can be done with them.
I haven’t checked it yet. Should do it soon, forcewave builds are cornerstone (because they are so good as your first build). Maybe tomorrow.
Hello, Zhuugus , I slightly refined thejabrixone Vitality Cabalist. Did 150-170 8 times in a row with 4 buffs. Facetanked 2 Rapist+2 Valdran sitting semi-afk on balcony of Dead https://www.grimtools.com/calc/0V04nn1V
BTW is there any reason to not use 4 buffs now with builds that can do 150-170 twice for 100% tribute upkeep? I think this requirement is some sort of legacy from pre-AoM.
I wouldn’t say it’s a pre AoM requirement so much as a pre 1.0.6 requirement given that the recent crucible changes touched upon tribute rewards for a 150-170 clear. For builds that can manage the double clear and sustain tributes it’s a fair metric.
Speaking of which, how many tributes are we getting for a 150-170 now?
Around 37, up from 16 before 0.6 IIRC
Nice, I’ll check it!
This is a very, very good question. I’ve thought about this myself. Maybe I’m really too conservative. My argument against posting times with 4 buffs (plus maybe a banner) is this: people sometimes write to me that they can’t achieve the same results as I do with the same build. And I am not the best player, for example Superfluff is definitely better than me and you, Ptirodaktill, probably too. So, if people can’t reach even times that I show then they won’t be able to do 150-170 twice on one set of blessings and my info won’t be that relevant to them.
On the other hand, 4 blessings + banner show the maximum potential of a build, that’s pretty sweet. And if someone can’t achieve it yet they can work for it, improve themselves.
What do you guys think about it? Now that this question has been brought up, I’m leaning towards posting times with 4 blessings. Maybe I should also use banner? I’m not sure.
4 buffs and a Banner are an artificial crutch helping struggling builds to manage Crucible. Its just that buffs now are Crucible enabler for many builds and a mandatory ones on top. I would prefer to see a real strong build not having to depend on such artificial boosts to be strong and efficient 150-170 farmer.
Maybe have builds evaluated in 2 parameters - max potential with 4 buffs + banner and Farming potential (with enough buffs to sustain tributes)?
With the changes to blessings, there’s now a lot of incentive to using all four, especially on builds that don’t have much overcaps. And Ptiro has provided a short guide on farming 170 with 4 buffs somewhere (if build can clear before 12 mins).
The only reason to farm 150+ is to get Greens. The pattern to farm is :
Buy all buff`s. Start at 150, finish 170, open chest, leave the loot behind.
Reset at 150, finish at 160, open chests, leave the loot behind. Reset at 140 clear to 160, replenish buffs, finish 170, open chests.
Then just reset and do another 150-170 etc .
If you can clear 150-170 under 12 minutes, then you can farm it all day and finish on 100 tributes.
IDK if he got it accurately cause he deleted the guide portion form his post but if it is, then I think you should do 4 buffs no banner. I’m still on the fence whether you should only post 12-min runners (instead of just all the consistent ones, even the slower builds) if you do 4 buffs though. I still don’t think 150+ is for farming.
About cleartime :
Items rolls and player skill can make huge difference. Most notably conversion rolls and %CDR rolls can lead up to 50% dmg decreases. %phyz resist roll is also extremely important - Formidable yellow boots can roll from 5% to 9%, formidable Logh shoulders can roll from 6% to 11%. A few missing percents here and faceroll build can turn intro oneshot siesta.
For us, GD veterans with 2k+ hours of farming using top-rolled stuff is a natural thing - after some time you wont even pick up purple trash from the ground >_> For new players with self-found gear its not that easy, so, you should, probably mention roll`s affection, or at least importance in build summary.
About banners:
I tried banner pre-AoM and they were horrible. I remember my FPS dropped to single-digit numbers with only one banner, so I never used them again. Dunno if Crete fixed them.
About buffs:
Ulo allow different from thunderstuck of kings affixes for greens, and some funny build with weird items It help a lot on HC, cause you never get enough supply of these greens >_>, and trust me, its better step barefoot on lego that try to craft a perfect pair of yellow boots.
+DA/OA also allow more diverse itemisation and differet devotion routes, so I wont call it a " artificial crutch" .
I accidentally deleted the text with my phone when I tried to fix typos and make it easier to understand >_>
The buffs are a blanket boost for every character/build as long as you can afford them.
You can have the shittiest build boosted to decent levels with just buffs/banner - this doesnt mean the build is good nor that you have decent min/maxed gear on that character.
Hence it feels artificial as the buffs are not part of the char building. Its obvious they are here to compensate for the nerf to DA as they affect only Crucible (where the DA issue was mainly present).
Nope, you cannot boost a shittiest build to a decent level. Every build that can farm 150+ with 4 buffs and 99%+ success rate can also do it no buffs no banners with some luck and concentration. To reliably do 150+ a build must casualy facetank all nemesis in the game 1vs1 / Shitty builds can`t do it.
Well i would love to see a video of a Belgothian BM doing 150-170 with only 4 buffs + extra spawn - i cant beat W160 unless i get some insane luck with spawns/mutators/crits.
Getting a banner changes things completely as only then you are able to quickly enough burst 2 reapers before you get a new a hole opened (or several).
In my view if a buff is not innate to the character/build - its artifical as it doesnt show that build strenght.
Again, post patch how many builds can effieciently farm 150-170 + extra spawn vs before patch?
Its a different topic how many builds can Complete 150-170 - if its for a one off - then yes majority of decent builds can do it.
Please excuse my ignorance here guys but which banner are you using Stonewall or Vanguard?
Vanguard - its like 400+ OA +tons of Crit dmg at lvl3 upgrade