[shield melee] Beginner's pre-Krieg Death Knight

Grim Dawn Classes, Skills and Builds
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384

My usual priorities when levelling a character, not just deathknight or soldier:

  1. Damage and core stats from mastery bar
  2. Passive defense
  3. Everything else

Why it’s like that - damage is just needed so that fights didn’t take too long, and fights easily deteriorate into slugfest if you don’t pursue damage early on, at least on Veteran difficulty. Rending Force in particular is crazy damage boost, first point gives you +20% physical damage for Forcewave and the rest of investment is quite efficient as well. At 12/12 it’s +175% physical damage, which is huge that early in time. You should also understand that enemies scale crazy early on too in durability department and then it flattens out a bit, so rushing damage is basically keeping the pace with them. Similarly core stats from mastery bar are needed to keep up with gear requirements that raise very quickly early on.

It’s baffling that you consider picking up Military Conditioning, Menhir and whatever else to be more efficient that my approach. Military Conditioning gives literally same shit as just pushing mastery bar higher, moreover it’s a percent modifier so obviously better later on. Menhir is good on paper but in practice it’s just not needed because Forcewave is an incredibly safe playstyle, assuming one possess basic kiting skills. Whatever you hid under that ‘etc’ is also going to be pretty secondary.

385

yeah it’s probably an issue of playstyle lol. I’m still very early on in the build so it might be my early impression. Some times it clicks later on in the build for me. How would you recommend distributing the devotions? Do you just add whenever you have a point or do you accumulate them and put it all at once?

386

I’d add them as you get them since the ones that have proc skills on them gain levels with your XP gains. Since the tier 1’s can go up to L25 max it makes sense to start them gaining levels as soon as you can since they add to your damage output.

387

Depends. Sometimes I’ve got a clear idea how I want my devotion path to be, sometimes I just play the game while accumulating 4-8 points and then think where should I invest them.

Sometimes I just try out new stuff too just for the sake of trying out something new. Ironic, but I level DK right now too, Forcewave for now but going to switch to Blade Arc later. I broke all kind of common sense which tells to rush Kraken and got Dire Bear instead, because I wanted to try it out.

In general I don’t treat devotions as something rigid like a lot of new players do. It’s a flexible tool that can give you stats your build and gear is missing, and you can always adjust it later on.

388

alright, now that i’ve adapted my playstyle I can totally see the build, it really is effective. I went up a few levels and yeah I was wrong lol. My last question is for level 18, did you mean 3 points in Rending force or is there a typo?

389

Yeah, 3 points into Rending Force.
Basically you need 16 Forcewave and 12 Rending Force and 1 point in Tremor, then rush Oleron’s Rage. Internal Trauma is unnecessary.

390

So this build although fairly old has been updated and is still viable it looks like right? I’m just starting to play bought the game and all it’s expansions and plan to follow this build and then hopefully I’m able to farm gear to try all the other fun builds too :slightly_smiling_face:

391

Not…quite…

The guide is two years old, the game was different then. For example there was no Oathkeeper, so anything + Soldier was a fair game for the shield guy. Now if you want a sword and board build you go the cookie cutter Soldier + Oathkeeper, period. If S&B is the goal then this guide is in fact outdated beyond repair. You can replicate my shield cadence setup, just there isn’t any meaning anymore.

If you simply want an edgy class named Death Knight and don’t care much if it’s S&B or not then you can still use this guide, except when it says “it’s time to switch to Cadence” you ignore it and keep levelling with Forcewave until the bitter end, farm Krieg set, etc. Death Knight ain’t exaclty a bad class, well, not good one either and perfectly average sounds just right.

I’m currently levelling a new DK in a similar way to this one, but my endgame plan would be 2H Blade Arc with Celestial Halberd and Krieg set (which I expect to be a silly strong budget build) instead of that silly Cadence affair. If all goes well I’ll post it in a month maybe, and then I can finally put big red “obsolete” on this one without pissing any of the fans.

392

ahhh thanks Stupid_Dragon got it, so it seems you’ve contributed quite a bit to build guides thats awesome! I don’t want to go way off topic but what of your builds would you recommend for me just bought the game and the expansions so I have no items it will have to be all on self found gear. I haven’t even made a character yet but I’m about to :slight_smile:

393

All of my ‘beginners’ series build guides are self-found proven. Out of stuff that’s not too dated I have Blademaster, Dervish, Infiltrator, Spellbinder, Templar and another DK which is pet-based. I can recommend any of them except Pet DK, which is self-found proven too, but microcontrolling skeletons and still fighting close quarters is beyond normal player’s capabilities.

As for the list of beginner build guides you can check the Compendium, they are under the Builds for Beginners.

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394

Hello man,

Is there any similar build like that with forcewave ?

395

If you mean beginner builds with detailed levelling then no, I’m afraid not. There was one before but the author had removed them from the forum.

If you mean any build with Forcewave at all then I don’t know, check Compendium or google it?

396

Hey @Stupid_Dragon, thank you for such an in-depth guide (all your guides are great actually).

I know this is not your favorite guide and you have been recommending the blade arc DK (which is insanely powerful for the budget needed), but I believe there is demand for beginner shield builds and your guide happens to be great for that. I learned a lot from it and it felt extremely safe/tanky even when facing nemesis in Ultimate (I am not a beginner though, especially on physical melee builds).

Regarding the Warlord comparison, I agree that it is the best S&B class overall, at least when you have enough gear for it. The class is just too synergetic and stuff like safeguard, presence of virtue (and its modifiers), and its WPS are too good for S&B. However, the DK has 2 advantages imo: being less skill point hungry, which allows you to focus more on soldier tree, and having that Stonewall Defender as an option. That shield is extremely cheap to craft and gives the DK a 15% phys RR advantage over the Warlord, which, correct me if I am wrong, has no comparable alternative that is target farmable. DK is also better fit for Krieg’s and aether melee builds, where Warlord is probably bad. Finally, due to the good amount of flat aether, vitality, and cold on necro, it also works better with conversion sources (Seals of Might, Fleshwarped Pauldrons, and, if you are lucky, Gladiator’s Distinction and Beronath’s Reforged), which ignore armor.

I also think that the low popularity of DK among the top builders is mainly due to two reasons: the aether Krieg’s build didn’t change enough to catch people’s attention (like no new interesting MIs) and the build is not OP enough to be popular despite that. For example, Spellbinders and Battlemages have seen attention due to Lucius’s, Theodin’s, and Ascended Casque Mis. Imo, Krieg DK is still a solid alternative for first character: easy to level, target farmable, and can clear most of Endgame with the set.

Anyway, I am currently playing a SSF S&B DK inspired by this guide. I ended up changing devotions, skills, and gear slightly. I plan to test how good this new setup is and how far I can push it. It shouldn’t be better than your Blade Arc DK for sure, but maybe it is a competitive S&B alternative for beginners. I might try an analogous Warlord to see how they compare too. If the results are good, maybe I post it? We’ll see.

397

True!

It has one unpleasant quirk - it’s on Ill Omen which has Terrify effect.

True.

True, albeit Krieg’s main problem for a long time was that while the set itself is target farmable there was no budget weapon for it, many used Theodin but if you’re using Theodin I can’t help but question what’s the benefit of being a DK over say Spellbinder.

True, that’s how DW phys DK functions and it has and last time I asked it has an edge over Warlord and Witchblade.

Battlemage just has quite a bit of fan base due to formerly being considered as one of the shittiest classes in the game. Spellbinder is just quite a broken class still and is the go to aether class to boot (any aether Arcanist is likely to get Necro and any aether Necro is likely to get Arcanist).

But you’re correct otherwise, I’ve yet to find an updated Krieg build (both shield and DW Mindwarp) that is thoroughly tested in high end.

DK did receive a super strong high end build just recently, Physical BA.

I would consider Dire Bear if I were to build that again.


Rest assured that the guide won’t be gone away anytime soon. Good luck with your playthrough!

398

True, the terrify can be annoying, especially if trying to maximize farm efficiency.

Yeah, I would suggest Theodin as a budget weapon too, but then there is no reason for Cadence and Spellbinder becomes more attractive. The upside of DK (if any) would be having more WPS. In fact, the new Zolhan’s technique rework for dual wield might make DK an interesting alternative with 100% WPS. I have a Theodin Spellbinder so maybe I can test a DK alternative and compare.

Yeah, I saw that build. Insanely strong and a straight follow up from your beginners Blade Arc DK.

I have been playing with Dire Bear. Did you try the armor reduction version already? It looks great on paper, but the low duration is really annoying (only 3 s). From my calculations, I need a skill that hits more than 2.222 times per second to sustain the debuff permanently. The only skill that can keep that frequency up would be Cadence, but then I need something else for assassin’s mark. Omen does not hit frequently enough for bear. I saw someone using it on Deathstalker (which is the relic I am using), but I am not sure that is reliable enough. Omen does not hit frequently enough either, but maybe it could be a good alternative for Assassin’s Mark?

I just finished Ultimate with my scuffed S&B DK. Campaign was really easy, no real close calls. SR 35-36 was also quite easy, so I managed to finish the last skill points needed. The build does lack damage though (even with really good RR from Necro, almost permanent War Cry with hard capped Break Morale, Deathstalker, and Shield). I believe that even with the shield diff, Warlord might still outperform this (gotta test it first though to be certain). I was also able to finish SR 50 without deaths, but I did have some tense moments in final room when I accidently pulled Valdaran and another boss together (I was trying to use camera abuse, but I still am pretty bad at it). If I learn proper camera abuse, I might go for SR 60 and get that juicy SSF Shattered Guardian set. Fun fact: I dropped a Gladiators belt on act 7, but obviously won’t use it as this is supposed to be SSF.

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399

Hi I have also experimented a bit with dire bear proc on my sword and shield cadance builds. With the death knight I use ravenous earth for casting assassin mark, yes one more button to push for you but skill hits fast and has several projectiles. Not problem for me cause useage of other shield that the one with ill omen enhancer

also you need to do SR 60 & 61 to get to buy SR set I think?

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400

Either bind it to Cadence and AM to Ravenous Earth or vice versa. You’ll have to pump RE a bit for extra projectiles to make it more consistent.

I tried Dire Bear on 2H build and didn’t found much impact, which is expectable. Haven’t tried it on 1H build and AFAIK noone made a proper test for 1H weapons yet (crazy, I know! lazy builders).

Not expecting much difference tbh unless you pump Safeguard points somehow (well, Totally Normal Shield + Turin’s Grip do that on budget quite well).

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401

I have tried it, but not sure if dragon proper :wink: Suggestions on what I should look at?
I just compared ravager kill times on average with and without proc

402

That’s a decent enough test, was there much of a difference?

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403

Yes but not sure if statistically certain
but when I tested I had skill bound to guardian (warlord) and when they proc it no life stealing because removal of weapon part of skill proc so I wanna re do those testings.

Also I wanna respec build to get more flat physical damages so test can become even more conclusiving. Like getting safe guard and rebuk higher

With death knight your only flat physical is from cadence skill it self right? Rest are converted damage from spectral bind and soul harvests that are not checked by armour anyway

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