Some physical damage feedback based on my builds, by mad_lee (WiP)

This is a feedback made by mad_lee, I am posting it on his behalf.

Warborn Death Knight

Guide

July 28 test patch update

So I have decided to test max flat damage and max %damage spec with this:

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Fastest run was 4:54:

Average run is more like this:

Can go up to 5:40. Seems like losing Deathstalker is not worth it at all. Even with 2900% to Physical damage before Cunning it still doesn’t feel good. And going all in on the damage makes it quite vulnerable.

Surprisingly, Blademaster does much better job despite of lack of RR:

I guess going as high as possible with % damage on Physical outweighs RR by a lot.

July 14 test patch update

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Adding weapon damage to Cadence helped a little bit. With more aggressive setup (second Sanctified Bone + bit more %damage in the devotions) I have managed to replicate the results of the build before the test patch.

Despite Status Quo being almost reached it feels like Warborn Cadence still needs few offensive buffs to become competitive. I would propose adding plus Deadly Momentum somewhere on the set and increasing %weapon damage to Cadence to ~80%.

Dire Bear helps with healing but in this particular build its armor reduction doesn’t do much if anything.

Videos:

Average run:

Fastest run (amazing luck with mutators and spawns):

Older test patch version results

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Results before converted physical damage rework:

5:30 ish 150-170 Crucible Gladiator, my fastest was 5:15 or 5:20, unfortunately, I didn’t post it and erased the vid long ago

Results now:

The build was never the fast one due to how weak physical Cadence is, but the way I’ve built it it was consistent and sturdy. With “magical” converted physical damage removed from the gain build gained about ~30 seconds to its timer.
6 minutes is not a competitive result for a properly min-maxed dw build made with a dedicated set, not much to add here.

Blade Arc Witchblade

Guide

July 28 test patch update

Build works pretty well now with the buffs to Gutsmasher. Here is the spec I went for in the end:

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Results:

So build is back at pre test patch levels. Although it took a bit of a different approach to make it work.

I would still ask to make the base of Gutsmasher something like 250-600 instead of what it is now as the damage spread is pretty high. It also seems like the performance of Physical Soldiers relies A LOT on War Cry and Break Morale. Having no minus cd to War Cry anywhere is a real downside to specs that can’t afford Warborn helmet (or cdr).

July 14 test patch update

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Decided to test without Huntress to get more physical damage, took @grey-maybe ‘s devotion map from his BA DK. Also changed one “of readiness” affix to “of Ruin”. As a result ~320% more physical damage. And it still feels slow compared to Death Knight with green weapon and more importantly, compared to itself before magical physical damage removal and Gutsmasher’s nerf.

Video:

Older test patch version results

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Results before converted physical damage rework:

(slightly different version by @banana_peel, but overall almost identical in terms of damage to the one above. I’ve managed 4:40ish runs with it)

Results now:

(fastest was 5:04)

Dire Bear spec (more %damage and armor reduction proc):

So it lost about 20-30 seconds on average, which is not too much, but still feels completely unjustified given that build wasn’t in the god tier of consistent 4:30 builds. And new test patch cuts the damage to Blade Arc on Gutsmasher, yikes.

Update: Build didn’t get better at all. Dire Bear doesn’t help this build’s damage it seems too.

Suggestion: instead of decreasing BA damage on Gutsmasher - increase it to ~25-30%. Change the base from 144-740 to something like 250-600 for more consistency.

Custom Octavius Tactician

Guide

July 28 test patch update

Changed up the spec again and got rid of Ring of Hagarrad. Pumped Ignition and passives and took a helmet for extra projectile on RoK. RR to Stormbox Conduit had to go because stats and %damage scales much better than RR even here. I would recommend changing that conduit to WoP RR conduit.

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Video:

July 14 test patch update

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Min-maxed the build a bit more, removing Octavius chest for more damage and more points in RoK. Build feels almost like it was before, but given the amount of firepower it has on paper it’s still a bit underwhelming.
Good news is that full Octavius seems to have gotten better.

Dire Bear is a good healing source here, but armor reduction doesn’t seem to be doing much.

Video:

Older test patch version results

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Results before converted physical damage rework:

Results now:

Build added 15-20 seconds compared to “magical” physical damage version. Less depressing than full Octavius, but still nothing to write home about.

Most of this build’s damage came from converted physical damage. Moreover, Inquisitor’s part of Octavius was designed to cater to converted physical damage on the Rune of Kalastor. I also had to drop cooldown Forcewave and full set because it was completely impotent in terms of damage.

In Conclusion

Converted physical damage removal is completely unjustified in my opinion. It’s way to late in the game cycle to make such a major change especially when most of the physical damage builds were surviving just because of this mechanic.

Argument about “new players being confused by it” does not hold up at all: there are a lot of mechanics in the game that are confusing to the new (and old) players, like the order of conversions (including different gear slots) or order of resist reduction or the way damage reduction affects not only incoming damage but incoming debuffs too, etc., stuff that is not on the wiki an that devs have hard time explaining
(we get it, it’s an ancient game engine).

5 Likes

I’m not sure what this post is contributing that hasn’t already been said in the existing Physical damage discussion, but cool to see Mad_Lee’s lack of acumen persists from beyond the grave I guess.

5 Likes

There were no Warborn Cadence results yet, at least i haven’t seen it. I was surprised to see how hard it was hit. The build (and at least Cadence side of the set) is pretty pointless now. It’s valuable data entry.

Well, that was uncalled for.

2 Likes

Agreed. The videos and comments on the Death Knight/Witchblade’s performance before and after 1.1.9.2 are worthwhile.

If you want to pull that card though, i think some of lee’s snark was uncalled for to begin with :stuck_out_tongue:.

2 Likes

A build becomes “pointless”, if it gains 30 seconds in a crucible run. We rly must play two different games.

6 Likes

Yeah. A build going from 4:00 to 4:30 after a nerf isn’t pointless.

Oh wait this isn’t pierce feedback thread, this is physical!

On topic, I’ll probably make another thread when I’m finished testing other retal builds but retal DE oppressor went from 5-5:30 before the test patch to 6-6:30 on the test patch. Cue “it’s retal, it’s not supposed to be fast” comments. The real catch now is that I can’t even do SR 90 with it anymore because I die from trash waves too much. I’m sure it can still handle the boss room better but if I don’t get there before timer ends it’s not even worth it. The only thing I can do to make it more survivable in SR is to dump physique instead of cunning which doesn’t make sense for me personally because more physique = more DA = more evasion = less retal dealt. No other alternative itemization is available anymore because most retal items got nerfed already. I also imagine stoneguard will perform similarly in crucible tho probably better in SR based on my pre test patch tests.

Also, I know Zantai still isn’t finished tweaking phys yet so it’ll probably be better once patch fully comes out but physical retal doesn’t feel good atm for me.

2 Likes

My feelings of losing 30 seconds in CR aside, my biggest concern with all of this (as I voiced before) is how much the Maul devotion proc impacts this and whether or not it becomes mandatory.

I have been using Targo’s (full BA spam with all MIs) with Maul dealing all non converted phys damage and it “feels” that I would benefit from 10% more phys res reduction instead of the -armor.

My initial reaction to the conversion change was highly negative. I appreciate the reversion done to Decree but I am pretty sure that my alternative build route will allow for a better build however I can’t test it as it requires very specific rolls on MIs. I should have waited before giving a partially uninformed feedback as I am nearly 100% sure that when I finally get to test and have those items, the build will be performing higher then it’s current baseline.

From a logic standpoint, the conversion change makes sense as all damage types are subjected to appropriate resistances after the conversion, physical (whether or not it was balanced a certain way) should be no different.

As for this post and where it came from…that I find baffling since there are other media platforms he is not banned from in which to get the point across. Also I would like to point out that the builder above, in the feedback thread regarding the SR sets, flat out told me that nightblades with shields are useless yet posted a trickster shield build with a sub 4:30 CR (if I am not mistaken). For the record we used the BS MI shield and the SoC MI shield long before builds were posted using them because they were considered meme (no we didn’t realize the BS shield wasn’t working and we were using the SoC shield long before it got the CD reduction). Regardless of what the data above shows it still comes from a source that is biased upon a certain threshold and not the game from a holistic standpoint.

. <——- grain of salt.

3 Likes

I think maul being mandatory is fine if we ever get to that point. It’s basically RR and all relevant RR devotions have always been mandatory for their respective damage types.

He’s not really active in the other platforms. And also, feedback is most visible to Crate here than on places like discord.

I dunno what he told you but at this point shields for the purpose of being a shield are all useless unless you’re doing a retal build or the rare non retal s&b soldier autoattacker (the latter is also currently very weak). Shields outside of that are basically budget offhands and the ones that are on strong buulds are only used because the mods they have aren’t present on offhands. But this is offtopic so let’s just leave it at that.

1 Like

First point:

Totally right about maul, failed to see it from that perspective.

Second point:

At some point, someone else or crate themselves would see the feedback or let them know regardless of the platform. Here nor there I guess.

Third point:

Actually not off topic IMO. A viewpoint was given about “shields on nightblades.” The context of whether or not they were useful outside of a glorified off hand was not a distinction that was made. My point was with that statement in mind, taking further observations from someone with that viewpoint and bias building patterns should be taken with a grain of salt.

However your observation on shield usefulness (as a non glorified off hand) is very accurate as all I have played for the last 2 months has been a s/b Targo warlord and it gets better the more I move away from supporting the shield.

I asked for +2 shaman on vortex of souls because I was having trouble getting primal strike to perform. We all make mistakes and learn from them, let it go imo

Main post updated!

1 Like

Reupdated after 14 july patch.

Updated! /10char

1 Like

Yeah kind of petty but I don’t see any issues based on Madlee’s tests, any melee build pulling under 5min is pretty much in the elite territory.

Most of those builds only got good on the latest patch that buffed physical. So yeah currently there’s no issue, but some of the comments in this thread were made before that patch which is why you’ll see some statements there saying builds are slow.