Some thoughts on PTR 1.2.1.0 (Mar 7) concerned with retaliation (R.I.P RtA Aegis)

Grim Dawn Public Test Discussion
1

  1. It remains to be seen how % Physical Resist changes influence retaliation builds on the defense side. I’ll reserve my comment later, except for Mythical Golemborn Greaves. It is almost a pure tank gear against physical damage. Its % Physical Resist should be reserved or at most reduced rather than removed directly, otherwise there is no reason to choose it because there is another better alternative called Mythical Venomspine Greaves.

  2. About Chains of Anguish (all versions): again, retaliation damage penalty is not necessary at all. Its DISIRED (a statistics concept) % all damage is coincidentally 0 or slightly below 0 (160% all damage VS a 6/25 x 25% all damage penalty), which means the people using the belt is sacrificing 100% damage (which is generally granted by other belts) and a lot of % resists (because other belts grant % resists but Chains of Anguish is indeed a negative % resist item) for what it offers (%OA, TS, % Crit damage, ADctH and +1 to all skills). To retal builds, Chains of Anguish is already a negative % retaliation damage item, because % resists ≈ % retaliation damage (since there is a component called Bladed Plating). Only those who urgently need +1 to all skills and ADctH will use this one, at the cost of some % retal damage. Adding retaliation damage penalty on it is unnecessary, unreasonable, unfair, and discriminatory, unless you just say “Hey Hey Hey! It is I who is the developer and I can do whatever I want, and I say no Chains of Anguish on any retal build” .

  3. About Conduit of Divine Whispers: this change means 31% damage lower than before. Though RtA Aegis was among the best builds in v1.2.0.5, it’s not 4:00ish OP, and such great punish is still too excessive. It should be dialed back, in part or totally.

  4. About Mythical Crest of Winter Fortitude: the goal of buffing Cold Blitz and Cold RtA Blitz is good, but this change is in a wrong direction.
    ① To Cold Blitz, Soldier and most classes involving cold damage (Occultist, Nightblade, Shaman, and Oathkeeper) do not have any flat fire damage. Inquisitor has little flat fire damage. Demolitionist has some flat fire damage but cold Demolitionist have few Flame Touched skill points so its flat fire damage is only 50ish. Therefore, the fire2cold conversion doesn’t help much in general. The real helpful part should be the flat cold damage modifier on Blitz.
    ② To Cold RtA Blitz, RtA Blitz is only part of RtA methods of the entire build, so global 100% fire2cold is still needed. If you really want to help Cold RtA Blitz, % Cold retal damage on Blitz or those fire2cold gears is the rather right option.
    ③ Other types of RtA Blitz. Physical RtA Blitz (based on Beronath ele2phys conversion) and acid RtA Blitz (involving a lot of fire2acid retal damage conversion) are badly hurt. These two builds did not perform any sign of being OP, because of being reducted by armor and lack of RR, respectively. The newly added conversion makes them bleed innocent blood.
    My suggestion is, remove the newly added fire2cold conversion and continue increasing Cold damage modifier for Blitz to 320-340. If necessary, add 10-20% crit damage modifier for Blitz.

1 Like
2

RIP means sr75 ok or not? :thinking:

3

Based on…?

4

Not ok. Very struggled when dealing with Zantarin, Aleksander and Slathsarr now.

  1. Turn on Grimtools and compare Mythical Golemborn Greaves and Mythical Venomspine Greaves yourself. Why should I take Mythical Golemborn Greaves if it has no phys res? BTW, skill points granted by Golemborn Greaves are not to skills that must be stashed to hard cap, but Mythical Venomspine Greaves grant +2 to Retribution of which the hardcap must be reached, to a retal RF build.

  2. Based on math. Most builds are of around 3000% damage. 3000% x 6/25 x -25% = -180%. This value is slightly greater than how much the belt grants. (before this nerf it was 5/25 so it is almost the same). This makes the belt a DISIRED 0 % all damage item with some other good values and high risk. But the belt does not offer any % retal damage, nor there is any OP retal build using this belt. In fact there is no developed retal build being OP. Why should that penalty be added? For some personal reason or just want to kill a possibility that this belt of trade-off being used in some unexplored retal build?

  3. Based on math, again. (1-60%)/(1-42%)=68.97%，which means a 31% damage loss. Oh, with respect, more than 31% to lighting RtA Aegis builds because you also nerfed the RtA on their shields. Like mad_lee and banana_peel said, are they OP now? Or is is just because of your personal emotion?

  4. I mentioned this thing before on the hand of RtA Blitz(RATA Blitz feels awkward. Some ideas on Crest of Winter Fortitude) but I guess you never cared about it. Mad_lee also made some tries on RtA Blitz ([1.2.0.3] Aegis of Retirement: 4:30 Crucible Gladiator 150-170, Shard 90, Celestials, tanky Lightning retaliation caster Archon + couple of bonus retaliation builds by mad_lee, in the BONUS RETALIATION BUILDS part). Concerning his build has Messenger of War devotion and Phoenix devotion, there is also a non-ignorable part of fire2acid retal damage. Now you banned these fire2phys and fire2acid on RtA Blitz build, which is with no doubt a nerf. Does something whose fastest SR75-76 try is 4:28 and most tries are 6:00ish need a nerf?
    On the other hand, look for the cold Blitz builds. Do they have fire flat weapon damage? If you really want to help cold blitz, add more cold flat damage or reduce CD or add crit damage or add RR, etc. There are tens of ways to help cold Blitz. Why did you choose one that doesn’t really help but hurts something innocent?

People are playing this game hours by hours and some of them give suggestions after investigate and survey. Is it making you feel smarter of yourself to try reaching the goal in a totally different but in fact under-considered way?