Stuff that escaped war on phys res

Grim Dawn Public Test Discussion
21

When the set bolsters a skill (or pair of skills within masteries that do not mesh well, like Defiler or Saboteur) with otherwise meager support because of skill conversions or weak masteries needing additional strength, then it benefits the game.

When the set is so overbearing with its offensive and defensive synergies, as well as class synergies, that it overshadows everything that would otherwise compete with it, like Beastcaller’s does, then I take issue with it.

I didn’t mean for it to be a general pet discussion, that can be moved to the actual pet thread. I am more specifically calling out the fact that set pieces often grant Physical Resistance as a set bonus, if not within the set pieces themselves, while the non-set items that grant Physical Resistance have skill bonuses so all over the place that it provides no synergy with a build that needs both skill points and defensive capabilities.

Here’s a few examples taken from the chest pieces:

Elite Coven Wrath Vestments: Aether Oleron Rage! Oh yeah, and the other skill bonuses are Arcanist (which has Reckless Power) and Necromancer (Harbringer of Souls).

Chosen Raiment: Otherwise good item that has bonuses to Acid Canister Bomb…

Chosen Robes: Provides much needed Lightning to Aether conversion, but skill bonuses are to Storm Box (which will never be used as long as Light’s Defender exists) and Sigil of Consumption (but if you’re using AAR and Sigil together, you’re probably taking the Black Flame set?)

Mythical Deathbringer Raiment: Provides more valuable conversion (from Vitality to Aether), but come on, Inner Focus and Rune of Hagarrad?

Mythical Devil’s Cage Hauberk: Chaos War Cry! I guess Physical, too, but Warborn set makes the bonus practically obsolete.

Mythical Fiendscale Jacket: A great Vitality item, but if you’re not playing a Bloody Pox Conjurer / Cabalist, then the skill bonuses are completely useless.

Gildor’s Guard: A shield retaliation item that gives retal bonus on block, but give skill bonuses to Word of Renewal, Haven, and Blade Barrier. Outside of Haven, none of those fit with Shield Retaliation builds.

Mythical Heart of Yugol: Anatomy of Murder and Devouring Blades? Blade Trap is practically not used at all, Vitality Blade Trap is even worse.

Mythical Stormweave Armor: You’re either a Cold Shadow Strike Nightblade or the bonuses are completely wasted (Lightning Shadow Strike? Sorry, Stormserpent set takes up the Chest slot)

Mythical Venomancer’s Raiment: An example of a non-set item done correctly, gives both Physical Resistance and bonuses to skills an Acid player would want to actually use, well, expect for Resilience, that is.

Non-set items need good offensive or defensive synergy to be able to compete with the natural synergies sets bring, but a lot of these items are all over the place when it comes to skill bonuses. They really need better skill bonus distribution so that builds that naturally want to use the damage bonuses and really need the Physical resistance these items bring to the table can grab skill bonuses that would actually benefit their builds.

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22

Tbf, some bonuses have been added to support meme and niche non-set builds. It’s ok.

23

I find Lost Souls and Set-less Hellhounds to be on the same level as Beastcaller for superbosses atm, on Conjurer.

For Ritualist Diviner > Beastcaller, imo.

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24

Even within the meme options, it’s still not okay. Like, nobody on Earth is going to run a Ravenous Earth / Acid Canister Bomb Defiler with no class RR. If you’re running a meme skill like that, you’d want to combine it with another class that actually has the capabilities - whether through good passives or a supporting additional active skill that bolsters the meme skill - to help make such a niche option work.

I know that the team is trying to make a whole variety of skills and conversions work, but they need to make sense on the surface before trying to give such strange support.

25

I’ve yet to see evidence that this has become an issue, but if it becomes a problem, we’ll happily address it.

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26

This seems to be the place to throw up the question:

Why not just a blanket nerf for all items and devotions, all the values of phys res?

Then there wouldn’t be doubt if an item “escaped the nerf” unintentionally.

It would also put less pressure on devotions, pants, chest (and now boots), to provide phys res.

In general, giving every armor piece a fixed, non-variable 2% or 3% would kinda mean players naturally end up at the desired total amount, without having to min-max for it and without much potential for outliers “abusing” and stacking phys res to become invulnerable.

If everything had a fixed, small number, I could just use the boots, gloves, pants I actually want for the build, rather than mangling it to fit as much phys res as possible.

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27

I kind of asked and suggested the exactly same thing. It would achieve the same goal and not create such value disparity between items with phys res and without phys res.

28

Or reduce physical resist ceiling with no overcap possibility beyond this and the need to nerf every item is reduced; still makes sense to change some for the refocus of physical resist going forward.
Builds that easily reach this limit encourages item diversity.

29

Because that makes phys res a non-stat coming from a non-choice. If it’s just there passively, might as well remove it completely and change damage numbers accordingly.

30

Armor being the only generally available mitigation vs phys would not work out well, as far as the math is concerned.

That would either make armor extremely broken, if it scales high enough to meaningfully mitigate large damage numbers.

Or really useless vs bosses, if the values only work in the damage ranges of small monsters.

This problem already exists to some degree, but currently favouring players in 1.2, allowing them to stack enough phys res to reduce even Celestials’ damage into numbers armor can mostly absorb, in extreme cases.

I agree that taking “more” phys res needs to be a choice of some sort, but currently it’s a non-choice as well. You have to have some phys res, so you either find a set of gear/devos that fits and has phys res naturally, or you make big compromises to adjust.

The choice should not be between making a build with 20-30 phys res and a build with 60-80 phys res, because those two builds would be impossible to balance around.

If numbers are closer together, and there is still some variation in values, maybe small amounts of phys resistance on affixes, then you can make a choice to get a few more percent of phys res at the cost of damage, without risking it being broken at the top end.

Currently the balance issue also includes armor btw.
The average build in 1.2 has armor values in the low 2000s, phys res in the 30% range.
The top end builds when it comes to mitigation have 4k+ armor, phys res mid-50s up to max.
Those tow extremes can not really co-exist.
Armor values need to be closer together, as well as phys res.

That can not be accomplished by the current changes, which still leave items with up to 7% phys res in the same item slot as items with zero, and armor with 1900 base armor competing with 1300 etc.

31

Which is why we have this patch. I agree that it was a non-choice already, and I remember persistent phys res creep on the gear since AOM. Set isn’t viable - patch slaps some phys res on it - set becomes viable. I can understand the desire to NOT do the same dance with FoA gear, and it’s an idea in line with previous nerfs of equally everpresent lifeleach.

Anyway, I’ll fuck off from this discussion as I’m not even on the testing branch. Just making an argument.