[Suggestion] Remove conversion from Frenetic Throw modifier for Phantasmal Blades

[Willnoword]

That’s the thing with many skills in Grim Dawn tbh. Not many people build cooldown versions of Forcewave, Blade Arc, Stun Jacks, Callidor Tempest and Primal Strike too. Literally the only exception is Blackwater Cocktail.

I would’ve agreed with you on Stun Jacks and Primal Strike in the past but those have since got more options that people are experimenting with them some more, even if the builds themselves don’t get openly posted.

Blade Arc is an oddity as from what I can tell, Rhylthar prefers spamming it for Bleed.

The other skills you mentioned still get some use as cooldown skills, even if it’s only 1-2 specific sets like Octavius for Forcewave.

Actually, Blade Arc is a nice nuke skill too. I have a Physical Warder utilizing it with Savagery as main attack. Lazy, simple and sturdy build .

and afaik, Grim Dawn is about to get “finished” just some more fine tuning to do. Removing skill modifiers would take lots of additional balance to do.

And that is the main problem. It is just too late for such fixes. Unfortunately.

Was there an answer from Crate about Frenetic Throw conversion? That explained such outstanding position alongside other similar modifiers (Forcewave, Primal Strike, Amarasta’s Blade Burst - no conversions)? I am just curious now .

[Stupid_Dragon]

Was there an answer from Crate about Frenetic Throw conversion? That explained such outstanding position alongside other similar modifiers (Forcewave, Primal Strike, Amarasta’s Blade Burst - no conversions)? I am just curious now .

They aren’t similar though.

Main difference is Forcewave and Primal Strike got a low number of damage types, moreover for Primal Strike converting physical to lightning is trivial. Amarasta’s Blade Burst doesn’t even have transmuter, unless you mean that particular endgame mace.

Phantasmal Blades though is a skill with whooping 5 damage types - pierce, bleed, vitality, cold and chaos. Transmuter reduces that number to four, out of which bleed can be neglected, resulting in three. That makes it easier to play PB without specific gear pieces. Building around 5 distinct damage types is bullshit and the transmuter would be much less playable before level cap. The only real use for cooldown PB before you got an access to conversions is using it as a bleed skill by the way.

Also, it isn’t exactly a problem if PB is one type or not if the damage is there, it’s just a silly perfectionism. And that transmuter has a history of nerfs. In fact in 1.1.5.0 Crate introduced a new sword that made a spammable PB with all damage converted into pierce, just the way you want it. The result was a first ever build to break a 4 minute timer in the Crucible. Crate’s reaction? Yup, toning conversions down:

[Norzan]

In fact in 1.1.5.0 Crate introduced a new sword that made a spammable PB with all damage converted into pierce, just the way you want it.

It doesn’t convert the cold damage. The build in question converts the cold through two Bladetwister rings and Chosen Epaulets, which i believe doesn’t even reach 100% total conversion. It’s 96% total conversion.

[Stupid_Dragon]

In fact in 1.1.5.0 Crate introduced a new sword that made a spammable PB with all damage converted into pierce, just the way you want it.

It doesn’t convert the cold damage. The build in question converts the cold through two Bladetwister rings and Chosen Epaulets, which i believe doesn’t even reach 100% total conversion. It’s 96% total conversion.

Right, I should’ve phrased it in a better way. But the end result is basically a full pierce, the remaining cold is too small to matter.

[Willnoword]

Amarasta’s Blade Burst doesn’t even have transmuter, unless you mean that particular endgame mace.

Yes, I meant that weapon. It has the same skill modifier mechanic - from nuke to spam.

Phantasmal Blades though is a skill with whooping 5 damage types - pierce, bleed, vitality, cold and chaos. Transmuter reduces that number to four, out of which bleed can be neglected, resulting in three.

Well, ok, an acceptable idea. Even though Nightblade does not have in-built Chaos support.

Also, it isn’t exactly a problem if PB is one type or not if the damage is there, it’s just a silly perfectionism. And that transmuter has a history of nerfs. In fact in 1.1.5.0 Crate introduced a new sword that made a spammable PB with all damage converted into pierce, just the way you want it. The result was a first ever build to break a 4 minute timer in the Crucible. Crate’s reaction? Yup, toning conversions down:

I did not mean that all damage must be converted to one specific type. The idea is making conversion not conflicting with each other if you choose spammable skill playstyle. You just waste a valuable chunk of main damage because Vitality modifier spoils Pierce conversion.

The idea is, Vitality conversion is just an instrument to “tone down” spammable Blades from godlike Crucible rushes . Not perfect, questionable, but it works. And no one will ever change that. Did I understand it right?

By the way, this item https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/13851 does not have any sense imho. Is it only CD PB only? For spamming use only Spite?

[Stupid_Dragon]

Even though Nightblade does not have in-built Chaos support.

¯_(ツ)_/¯
Nightblade doesn’t exactly have an abundance of vitality support either, but here we are.

The idea is, Vitality conversion is just an instrument to “tone down” spammable Blades from godlike Crucible rushes .

That would be incorrect because when that transmuter came into existence Crucible was planned at best.

And no one will ever change that. Did I understand it right?

That’s not for me to deside. I’m not really defending the current state of things, just pointing out that simply removing conversion would actually make that skill worse, unless you’re also cutting the number of damage types.

I did not mean that all damage must be converted to one specific type. The idea is making conversion not conflicting with each other if you choose spammable skill playstyle. You just waste a valuable chunk of main damage because Vitality modifier spoils Pierce conversion.

If you have some specific build in mind that suffers greatly due to that conversion then bring it up, perhaps Crate would consider some gear tweaks.

By the way, this item https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/13851 does not have any sense imho. Is it only CD PB only? For spamming use only Spite?

Basically yes, that’s what the offhand seems to suggest. Perhaps it would had worked as a spammable version if that offhand and Bloodborer had solid cast speed, but alas.

[system]

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