Not only they don’t feel unique, but they also need additional items to work. Just look at how many items you had to add in order to make some builds actually work to a degree, Vitality Death Knight, Bleeding Trickster etc. Some masteries also have so many damage types that even appropriate items can’t make certain builds work, conversion does help much, but it’s not enough sometimes.
If conversion converted RR too (which happens in FG, right? Or does only the new mastery have it?), it would get rid of another huge wall in builds, but then conversion might be OP (just look at fucking Curse of Frailty and Beronath sword, lmao, -55% physical resist, oh, and add the belt 100% vitality -> physical, 85% RR).
Basically, it seems that Grim Dawn 2 will happen, maybe not today nor in the next year(s), but it seems that you guys are planning TOO MUCH for future projects…
I had to read the entire thread again so I make sure that I don’t contradict a previous statement I made. Imo, if we remove some damage types for a future GD2, these, along with a pierce/bleed merge are the only things that should be done. I’m not really a fan of removing Chaos and Aether as these two damage types have already made their mark on the game and it would not feel like GD again (imo) if these two were removed, especially since the lore itself stated that the Grin Dawn happened (or got accelerated as AoM reveals) because Arcanists had to mess with Aether for science.
There can always be an explanation on why there’s no more aether or chaos damage. For example, the evil chaos lord has been defeated and there’s no possible source of chaos damage anymore. There’s always a way.
I agree. However, the line beyond which the number of damage types is bloated has not been crossed. In fact, I believe that this particular aspect of the game is very close to perfection. As a big fan I’m afraid that the opposite line might be crossed - where for the sake of simplicity and convenience the game will turn into a tic-tac-toe slash hit-the-mole-with-a-legendary-hammer.
Please don’t forget that it’s the variety that sets Grim Dawn apart. It’s complicated, yes, but this is one of the things that keeps the community alive.
When I hear “no more aether and chaos” I feel a little like a chess player who’s told that knights and bishops will go cuz, you know, too complicated…
Variety can be improved in many ways other than just damage types. No one saw the Devotion system coming, for instance, and look what that gave us. We didn’t expect Skill Modifiers either, and now we didn’t much expect movement runes on Medals. I’d be optimistic that GD2 would have some surprises in store for its hypothetical audience as well.
When Component Completion Bonuses were up in the air for removal, I voted against the action because I believed it’d cut down on the customizability of characters. And, you know, maybe I was right. But the pros for having removed Completion Bonuses from Components far outweighed the cons and I would never want to go back to the old system. Crate has done such great work that would not have been possible had Completion Bonuses stayed. Point being, it’s unwise to picture changes in a vacuum. Think of what can be done in a system to expand upon such changes.
Edit: FWIW, don’t get me wrong: if this is something you’re staunchly passionate about, by all means, keep pushing for it. I love Aether/Chaos damage too and would hate to see them go. But I’d welcome further creativity in their stead as well.
You said many times that its a bad idea, but you didnt really adress how it reduces the complexity.
It doesnt defeat the purpose of buildcrafting, not in the slightest. You made your own counter argument. Being able to combine more skills and items to create viable builds is increasing complexity and diversity because you have more combinations to choose from.
The fact you didnt consider, why you thought this would be a good argument: just because you have more combinations to choose from, doesnt mean all combinations are suddenly equally effective. There would still be combinations that are simply more effective, which need to be found.
All your enemy examples are bosses. Bosses that always need some time to kill because of their large hp pool are not good examples.
Here are some examples of enemy mechanics that need to be dealt with in a certain time:
An enemy transforming into a stronger one when not killed fast enough.
An enemy channeling an ability you need to interrupt (by stun or killing) otherwise receiving high amounts of unavoidable damage.
An enemy with a small hp pool that explodes on death dealing high amounts of damage
I just looked up your examples on youtube by searching “grim dawn insert boss facetank”. None of these bosses seem to feature such a similar or alike mechanic. Actually, they all feature many fast and unavoidable attacks, which you are either able to tank or die. I included the word “facetank”, so I can check if you actually need to kill them fast, but seeing that you can facetank them with the right setup doesnt support your claim.
I dont mean to say that everybody needs those mechanics to have fun or that I want those mechanics in Grim Dawn, I just want to point out that you seem to have a strange understanding of the game and the impact of the proposed changes.
The damage types do not add varierty mechanical-wise, because they have no mechanical differences, so having more doesnt increase build variety. And not having as many damage types doesnt turn Grim Dawn into tic-tac-toe. For me, those conclusions are again, really strange, I am sorry but I cant follow your line of thought.
Excuse me, if I sound aggressive. Its just a sign of my lack of understanding. I am not able to understand how you arrive at your conclusions and this frustrates me. I may sound zealously to you about some ideas, but I just want to exchange some thoughts and my goal is definitely not to destroy your experience with the game by suggesting intentionally bad changes.
It’s really inspiring that you even did research in an effort to prove every last thing I said wrong. Thanks for at least trying to be civil about it in the last paragraph.
As for letting aether and chaos go, maybe someone could run a poll. I’d say nay and let’s leave it at that.
If damage like Aether/Chaos goes, then I will lose interest in GD…
I feel the damage type diversity is not purely for game-play reason… each source of damage has its own identity… And some people are even suggesting Chthonics and Aetherials who are archenemies, to share the same damage type…
Also, it will reduce the number of role-plays we can do with Grim Dawn.
The variety of the damage type is one of the big reason I like Grim Dawn, and if it’s simplified so number crunchers can more easily maximize the numbers on their meta-builds, then count me out…
Do you realize that you can mechanically roll the two onto a single damage type, managed by a single damage bonus on items, and a single resistance, and still have the types as different?
Imagine having an aether prm deal arcane damage with a racial bonus towards chthonics, and chaos strike dealing extra arcane damage to aetherials, via racial bonuses added to slathsarr’s crest and riftstone…
1 type, 2 different mechanics, much more distinct.
I have imagined that and I think it just makes me lose even more interests. I still think the damage source will lose their identities. “Arcane” may be distinct, but chaos and aether have lost their identities. Also, if I equip an item that used to specifically increase Aether maximum resistance, with your mechanics, it would now also actually increase Chaos maximum resistance; again, very conflicting.
And with “Arcane” singled out for this mechanic, I feel it’s inconsistent. Why is “Arcane” only getting special mechanics?
However, it’s all fine. People can ask for whatever they want, but then they just make the game into what they are are interested in, but not the GD I am interested in.
