Oh the irony.
How about the RSI? Some of us aren’t as young as we used to be and holding down a mouse button or keyboard key gets really old. I fired up my AAR Warlock the other day and lasted about 10 minutes before I got tired of it.
If you get something like a Logitech G13 you can setup a key toggles for things like “left mouse down”. I probably would be playing games anymore if I didn’t have something like this for that very reason. Well worth the investment.
I uh, do not play top builds, nor do I play anything requiring standstill. I also only play HC Self found. I do enjoy Lightning Druid, and Sorceress “all the things proc” fire build + RR out the uh yea. Other than that I play some 2h Rifle builds. Pretty fun! I basically never copy a build and always just play to have fun / do not die 
Jesus you just NEED to argue ROFL :p:D
Yeah thx and I agree. Been using one of these for years however I don’t find it works well with this skill. You have to actually stop moving for one thing before activating AAR. I just find it extremely clunky to play.
Ahh, cool 
Well, I’ve haven’t tried an AAR build yet, but I do play ranged DW and rifle builds where you effectively have to stop moving to fire. I have the G13 setup with multiple toggles, so I have a movement toggle permanently engaged while playing ranged builds (force move, rather than LMB) and just hit another toggle key to fire a ranged weapon. Basically, point the mouse to move, press a button to fire / stop firing. It works well.
I use LUA scripting rather than just configuring individual button macros, as you can do things like changing the colour of the display to show which toggles are active.
PM if you want more info or help setting up some scripts
Back on topic, maybe I need to try AAR or JoV’s Obliterate build ^^
The "argument here wasn’t about whether you should like AAR nor was it about people being unpleasant because others are not agreeing with their opinion. It originally was about whether AAR deserves its place in top 10, and if people could’ve acted civilized enough not to result to petty passive aggressive and name calling (did daddy ever teach you the saying of not accusing others of what you might be guilty of yourself?) it would’ve been more fitting for the thread~
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I wasn’t aware there was an argument going on, I just ignore the posts that are nasty. I certainly don’t think it’s off topic to point out that the actual gameplay with a build might not be to everyone’s liking. IMHO a good build has to be fun to play as well as effective.
Here is my top 10 list (not in order):
- Ultos Elementalist
- Quick Jacks Elementalist
- Lightning Pet Conjurer
- BWC Sorc
- Cold DW Spellbreaker
- Warborn Blademaster
- Warborn Witchblade
- DEE Witch Hunter
- Tri-Elemental Saboteur
- VoS Sorcerer
I have few AAR and obliteration builds, overall obliteration builds are superior in any given situation. To make my self clear single target dmg vise AAR alone is stronger than obliteration alone, but its much easier, due to skill points available, to mix some other source of dmg with obliteration than AAR, thus even in single target dmg department obliteration builds are stronger, AOE is not comparable at all.
Totally agree and made it bold not red, you know why 
And no, AAR doesn’t deserve place in top 10 imho.
That’s a very kind offer and thank you muchly. I will try the force move button thing as well. I tend to just set up the LMB to autopilot but ofc you also have your primary skill going off when you do that.
The thing is there are so many class combinations and even in the very same class combination you can have probably half a dozen to a dozen very different builds and most here speak from personal experience.
Wether ARR deserves a top in your own personal top 10 which most here have posted is soley up to personal judgment.
I do not have the item which grants Obliteration so I cannot comment on it’s performance but ARR can be easily combined with spells like OFF, Callidor’s Tempest, Devastation, Doombolt or Sigil of Consumption without much of a sacrifice.
Personal judgment is weather you like it or not, does it actually have place in top 10 is a matter of testing performance.
Obliteration cost is exactly 0 skill points, AAR cost is much more, same goes for energy usage, AAR needs much more energy, thus to combine and max some hard hitting skill skill/spell with AAR will leave you somewhat short of skill points in other departments ie defense and energy management. Not to mention that all these skills you mentioned are lesser single target dps source than for example non transmuted stun jacks or grenado, and not even one of them will give you comparable AOE of combining obliteration with tempest due to CD (devastation/doom bolt) and overall AOE and dmg capabilities (sigil/OFF).
1.) This is not what the topic is about, the tc specifically asked:
“At this point, what would you say is your top 10 builds”
Therefore there is nothing wrong chosing ARR for whatever reason you deem fit. Also what is “best” is very subjective in a (mostly) single player game like this.
2.) Doombolt and Devastation are chosen for their burst or AoE clear, not neccessarily for their DPS.
As for AoE clear, I have yet to see something better than OFF followed by Devastation. Only Hulks and act bosses/nemesis types survive this.
3.) There is nothing stopping you from using Stun Jacks on a Sorcerer ARR build either, or Grenado, or Mortar. In fact I am using them on mine with great success.
Also the energy problem is overblown. Choose some constellations with energy regeneration like Scholar’s, Raven, Oklaine’s, etc. spend at least one point in IEE, Mental Alacrity and Ulzuin’s Chosen (Sorcerer) you will do fine once you get a bit of +x skills to your character.
I dont have an issue of you listing AAR to top 10, hell list bloody pox to it also idc, but its not subjective, with enough in game experience you can clearly make a difference between quality/potential of the builds.
Ofc nothing is stooping you to take SJ or grenado on AAR, but since its completely other type of dmg it wont be even as half effective, not to mention shortage of skill points.
About devastation OFF combo, try tempest mines (ofc if your lightning/electrocute is rr and % to dmg vise supported enough), pretty much same effect but you dont need to invest any skill points to get it, except for mines that you need in any case for rr and gl maxing off and devastation on AAR build.
Overblown or not energy usage of AAR is high and you have to give some love to it. Btw what does exactly ulzuins chosen do for AAR?
Bloody Pox can be terrific on a retaliation build, just saying.
“With enough gaming experience” you are talking to a guy who has 30 years of gaming experience and probably around 300 hours on Grim Dawn so that argument does not really fly with me. Furthermore, even if Obliterate is better, for which I have only your word and someone else said the opposite earlier in the thread, meaning we are again back at the subjective part of this discussion, it still would not invalidate ARR as a choice since this a top 10, not a “what is the absolute best top build” question.
Why would Lightning damage be far behind when good chunk of items gives aether/elemental, pure elemenal and for devotions aether and lightning damage? Half as effective? No, not really if you chose devotions and gear appropriately.
Why are you so obsessed about “saving points”? It’s not like there is that much useful stuff to spec into anyway at some point.
Ulziuns gives -x% energy cost on top of some extra damage, that is why I mentioned it.
I really enjoyed conversation with you, but I will just bail out now.
P.S. Friendly advice: play the game and test builds to be able to properly compare them and read skill descriptions, ulzuins chosens skill description for start.
Edit: Name of the tread is ˝The Absolute Top 10 Builds for GD˝, and even obliteration builds I made are hardly in top 10, much less AAR.
Doombolt is very bad in terms of both single target damage and AoE clear. It’s only worth investing as a 1 pointer (even then, it’s very possible that it results in a dps loss because of the interruption) even if you are building chaos damage.
As for Olexra-Devastation combo, there are tons and tons of other AoE clears that have more damage, are faster, and more consistent (such as DEE WH, BWC Sorcs, even VoS Sorc, etc, most of which out damages Ray even on single target). 300 hours in a game like Grim Dawn is nowhere near close enough for your anecdotal evidence to be true enough to justify your statements; are you experienced enough to even know what the aforementioned acronyms stand for?
The energy problem is not overblown. It may not be a problem for you since you are clearly not focusing on AAR enough to even call it an AAR build, from using stun jacks to grenados, but for actual Ray builds, the energy crisis is very real. Again, just because you think your setup has “great success” doesn’t mean it is true on a broader spectrum of the game, the spectrum that you clearly are blind to. I have no problem with you putting AAR on your personal top 10, hell that’s true for probably all people. In fact, they might even appreciate you playing your strain of “AAR” build since it will make their builds look so much better in comparison, but please do not try to state that whatever skill combinations or game mechanical knowledge you are using or know are proven to be good by your anecdotes.
Ulzuin’s Chosen doesn’t affect AAR. Only the skills mentioned in the tooltip of Ulzuin’s Chosen.