The constraints of budget builds, regarding phys res and gear choice

Grim Dawn Public Test Discussion
21

I don’t mind, but you are going way off-topic.

It’s not about fixing the build. The build I posted was already performing well enough, after putting in Ghoul, Eastern Legs and getting one Vitality affix.

That was never the complaint.

It’s also not a “phys damage OP, pls nerf” topic.
If I find an issue, like taking too much phys damage, I will fix it on my build, as done above.

The issue I found when making the build, was a severe lack of budget options, and the phys res options (Stoneplate, Eastern, Ghoul) outperforming the others.
Stoneplate Greaves, Mythical Eastern Legs are, without much competition, the best choices.
In fact, on a budget level, almost the only real choices.
I have a number of items in my stash that I tested, a greater number that are just inferior in every way.

Worthy of consideration for pants were for example:

  • Mythical Legplates of Valor - Great defense, but no %damage or OA, also a random lvl94 epic drop that can’t be transmuted to
  • Mythical Anchorite’s Leg Armor - less DA than Valor, no damage, random lvl 94 epic
  • Runeward Legguards - Close to Eastern, but no OA, and random lvl 94 epic that can’t be transmuted
  • Dreeg-Sect - Best case: Slightly worse than Eastern, but with some regen and stun res.

So it’s really between farming great Dreeg pants or using Eastern, and every other pair of pants is just an honorable mention.

Extending this to Stoneplates, the affixes on the helm, the devotions… it all narrows down to taking the maximum amount of phys res and losing nothing in return.
And if phys res is not available because it#s a rare item, taking the best offensive affix and “of Vitality” suffix.

Making a build survivable vs phys damage is “easy enough”, but it also excludes so many items that would compete for those 3-4 items slots in question.

I think pushing the argument “Phys res doesn’t matter much” is pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes. That’s just not true, as shown in your own videos: You gained 100 DA and you still take hits for 4-5k, occasionally 6-7k.

Phys res didn’t go down by as much, on most builds, it’s just distributed over fewer slots.
Phys damage also didn’t go down as much, you will still need phys res, or become a 25k HP sponge.

You can’t show me a video of a 12k dmg charge hit, 5k auto-attack hits, and then try to tell me “It’s clearly a sustain issue”.

Yes, anything that’s got a retaliation aura, Vald, Durg, Skybreaker (hilarious), Mad Queen goes absolutely mental against this, especially if you don’t remove the (very crucial) Imp proc.

22

and that is the point, and has been from the start: you dont’ need to chase phys res
Z said it, and i’m confirming it for the 5th time, there is not an arbitrary “cap”/amount of phys res “required” for the build(s) now

yes, and prior to 1.2.1 that would have 12-15k dmg/absolutely lethal, despite the old phys res…
that’s again the point: the phys dmg is lowered so drastically less lethal even with the lower phys res, aka
“we don’t need to chase it the same”,
as you’re trying to make it out to be: we don’t need 20 phys res now/those slots don’t matter as much and are less important “contra the overalls statement of the thread” - heck dare i say surviving is easier because the tweaks are easier/the compensation is better than before 1.2.1…

she still went absolutely nuts :sweat_smile:

23

Another great attempt at leading the topic astray.

But I disagree with your observation.

Everything in my testing points to more phys res = better. There are of course limits as to how much you can get and break-even points with armor, but:

Just a simple bit math:

If you have 2.5k armor and get hit for a reasonable 6k physical damage, that leaves 3500 damage going through (at 100% absorption).
If you have 20% phys res, that reduces the damage to 2300 after phys res and armor absorption.
So 20% phys res is equal to a 35% actual reduction in damage at that value of damage, or equal to 1200 armor.

I can reach 20% phys res without sacrificing too much, by making the non-choices as outlined above.
But I can not increase armor by 1200 within reasonable limits, certainly not on a budget.

yes, and prior to 1.2.1 that would have 12-15k dmg/absolutely lethal, despite the old phys res…

Maiden has never one-shot me outside of SR90+, in the last 2 or 3 years. She has out-DPSed a budget build with a hefty Cadence once or twice, so that hasn’t really changed.
Neither has Benn’Jahr’s poke, or Map Room Guardians or what-not.

I can not stress this enough, I do not think this is a problem.
Not that much has changed in my experience, in terms of incoming damage, as long as you have your defenses in order.
I can live with fitting 20-30% phys res on the build. But having to fit it into the ~3 flexible gear slots is massively constraining.

24

literally on point/topic ?

yes. as long as there is no hard cap and it’s theoretically available more will always be better
we can apply the same logic to armour, max res increase, DA and even dodge/deflect…
it’s not about whether more is better, but if it’s necessary, let alone to the degree it’s made out to be here
which from testing; it’s not
this is why we have single digit phys res mid 2k armour builds with low health now surviving sr 75 phys dmg attacks when before they could not - but still dies to magick attacks
this is why your own shieldbreaker can survive 75-76 phys dmg attacks when before it gets 1shot

she literally 1shot this very build for almost 17k dmg… on 75-76 on non-playtest/1.2

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and as i’ve mentioned “anecdotally” she’s been a straight up showstopper for several of my builds before, that could not get past fabby/maiden, but can now
she can hit for over 15k prior to this patch, heck if you’re sundered she can hit for like 20k sometimes… i know, i’ve tried: she’s straight up gibbed my chars before

and again, that’s still the point; we don’t have to
you’re fine with disagreeing, but every single build i’ve run, says this is not necessary now, it might have been before, but it’s not necessary now, all my personal runs line up with exactly what Z replied, you’re focusing on a number without it actually being the case of being the requirement now
and “more always being better” is not really a great argument, because it applies to anything, the difference is before it was darn near mandatory to get X phys res, get those slots or devos, but it’s not now
20 phys res is better than 10, sure, 20 is better than 5; but the 5phys res afforded by a leg slot does not provide you the value now to the degree it constrains you, because the value is severely diminished/limited, so the same need isn’t there lifting the constraints…

25

this pretty much lines up with any and all builds i’ve tried so far, the phys res and armour value themselves are fine, but more HP and faster healing/more healing is “beneficial”

26

I just want to point out that there are other ways to further mitigate physical damage besides just more % phys res or armor. For example it is possible to take Nature’s Guardians to get some % damage absorption and Light of Empyrion to further increase % damage reduction.

I’m not saying anybody’s right or wrong about anything, but these are just some other tools to consider.

27

Just to clarify that it’s not an issue around Iron Maiden or SR specifically, some physical mobs in main campaign for testing:

(Ghoul and Chariot unbound from their skills for clarity)

image

28

eats slow moving projectile intended to be avoided
seems fair to me?

*doesn’t look like you’re taking less dmg from balls on non playtest/old phys res

single ball still clipping over 8k dmg

heck if anything i think your example shows how spot on Z got the phys dmg dialed back vs phys res/armour changes considering how similar the balls hit for