I wasn’t shitting on him, I was pointing out why his build is far from invincible. As to who am I etc. I did the exact same thing and because of my lack of understanding it didn’t really teach me anything. Until you get an understanding of the mechanics and everything that goes into making a viable build cheating in builds is pointless. You’d be far better served legitimately playing the game because some things you only understand from playing the game.
I see some fun being poked at him but no one has actually shit on him. Once he gets some experience under his belt he will have a better idea of how to improve the build.
He is bragging about his build. That is the tone of his post. “I did some theory-crafting today and came up with a build which can be invincible almost 100% of the time.” This is a bragging tone. If he’d said “I have an idea that I think is great and this is potentially what I see happening but I am new and I’d like your input” it would have been different. He’s also giving advice that reads as absolute when again he is new. I have nothing against him being new but the amount he doesn’t understand is evident in the build and the way he is talking. I have 1200 hours in this game. I still wouldn’t feel comfortable presenting a build in any way that wasn’t absolutely about getting help with it because there is just so much I still don’t understand.
Ravager? Avatar of Mogdrogen? Lokar? I’ve familiar with all of these bosses, and I’ve fought against Lokar. To my knowledge no character in Grim Dawn can deal damage through 100% damage absorption (well, 112% with Maiven’s).
Which boss? I have a bunch listed in the OP that I’m planning on facing with the build as soon as I can, are there any that aren’t listed there that you’d like me to fight with this build?
I have faced both Kubacabra and, as of just a few minutes ago, Benn’Jahr. I’ve managed to kill both of them, though with some deaths because I’m still learning this build’s mechanics (which are complicated and very timing sensitive). I was looking for Grava’Thul and didn’t find him in the 7 spawn points available to me, so I’ve been pushing through the campaign so I can get to the void’s edge.
I’ve managed to kill both Nemesis monsters I’ve faced so far. The build isn’t that bad on damage. If I didn’t die I would have killed Benn’Jahr in 1 minute flat.
I have completed all AoM content on Ultimate legitimately except for killing Celestials and Nemesis bosses. My first character simply isn’t geared well enough and is too much of a glass cannon (went mage hunter, not using a shield). I’m planning on turning that character into a panetti build most likely, but I would like to come up with my own build if I can. One of my favorite parts of ARPG games is looking at gear and skills and coming up with new and unique combinations. Even if the combination isn’t AS effective as other combinations, that’s what I personally enjoy about Grim Dawn - experimentation.
It’s really none of your business how I choose to play the game.
Except it’s existed since vanilla days and is known to everyone. CDR is like any other stat, if you build solely around it it’s pointless. Think of it this way, in vanilla both JoV and Safarel showcased 5k OA builds and both of them acknowledged it was pointless to invest so heavily into it. I have run 3k+ DA builds in vanilla and knew 3k DA in base game is almost pointless. My point is experiments like this have been done for a long time which is why he’s being advised to change his approach
And the OP isn’t being braggy, well not entirely being braggy but he still refuses to listen to reason.
Lastly about him having fun that is fine and all. But this is a build section I appreciate creative builds but not unoptimized ones and you don’t want new players to be following such builds. He’s getting shit for that title since braggy titles are newb traps.
This is something I’d like to see actually. It takes you forever to kill Sylvarria and Galakros, killing Ben in 60 seconds? I’d like to see that
You seem to be espousing an appeal to tradition. You feel that it has been absolutely established that focusing too much on a single stat makes a build weak and doesn’t work. I think this is a false assumption - a generalization. Correlation is not causation. Just because a number of builds that focus on a single stat don’t work does not mean that ALL builds which focus on a single stat CAN’T work. (roughly a fallacy of composition)
What would I have to do to prove to you that you’re wrong? What’s the bar?
Level 100+ AoM trash mobs in ultimate? Done.
Level 100+ hero mobs in ultimate? Done.
Level 100+ purple bosses in ultimate? Done.
Level 100+ nemesis bosses in ultimate? In progress, 2/7.
Level 100+ celestial bosses in ultimate? Planned.
What is your definition of a viable build? Does the build have to be able to beat Ravager, Lokar, and Mog? Does it have to be hardcore viable? If so, that’s an incredibly high bar and I imagine 90% of the builds posted here don’t meet your criteria.
Far as I’m concerned, I’ve already established this build works. I’ve provided videos, detailed explanations, and I’m working my way through all of the endgame bosses. Ultimately, I don’t need your approval. You’ve already said “go back to the drawing board it’s bad”, it doesn’t serve anyone to repeat yourself.
Ryzel I am sure this reply sums up how open OP actually is to suggestions for his build.
And to the OP I never said building solely around a single stat doesn’t work, it works but its pointless. A build is more than just about a single stat, it is less about tradition and more about experience. I’ve already pointed out this concept isn’t new. As someone who is experienced with this concept I wanted to point out improvements but you don’t seem to be interested in listening to me or anyone else
Lastly, you’re getting shit for your title. If it wasn’t this braggy and misleading none of us would’ve posted all the shit we posted
On page 1 blawsonhull provided some feedback on health and noted that more than 3K OA was overkill, and I can crit consistently with 3K OA. I took his advice and adjusted the build. I didn’t end up using the medal he suggested because I wanted to try another option, but I may end up using it anyways.
“It works but it’s pointless”. Care to expand? Why is it pointless? From what I can tell, the point of Grim Dawn is to kill enemies without dying. Ideally in a reasonable time frame. From my testing so far, this build seems to be capable of doing that. The dying part still needs some work (if more defensive stats can be worked into the build without compromising damage or CDR it should be able to take hits more often).
Doesn’t matter if you call it tradition or experience. You think the build doesn’t work in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You haven’t provided any advice that isn’t recommending entirely different builds. I’m well aware of the limitations/issues with this build (I’ve played it for ~6 hours in ultimate now, going against all content I can find).
I can see why the title might get under some people’s skin, but it’s actually descriptive. Mirror of Ereoctes/Blade Barrier give temporary “invincibility”. This build manages to keep them up almost 100% of the time. It’s not exaggeration or bragging when it’s literally what the build is about (achieving something close to invincibility by using skills that literally make you invincible almost constantly).
I can see how someone might not understand the build as it deviates heavily from standard builds. It doesn’t have incredibly high health, it doesn’t have high DA, it doesn’t use a shield, etc. It’s not what you would expect when you read “invincible” and think about Grim Dawn builds with strong defensive stats. It’s a niche/cheese build (which I said upfront in the OP). But just because it’s not what you expected does not mean it’s misleading. The build fits the literal definition of invincibility in the skills that it uses and unless there’s an enemy that can deal damage through 112%+ damage absorption or that can’t be critically hit, it’s a completely valid description for it.
I think that new and creative ideas should be welcomed here. Even if the idea didn’t necessarily work, it could still inspire or evolve into something valuable or interesting.
I won’t bother explaining myself anymore because I want to avoid saying something accidentally and causing nerfs. If you snoop around the forums and pm the right people they just might reveal stuff to you but don’t count on it.
But I will respond to this part of your post,
It’s partly because of all the creative builds posted in vanilla/base game that we got all these new items some examples of such items that come to mind are Krieg MI set, Darkblaze set, Acid->Vit conversion on items, Silver Sentinel Set, Belgothian’s Slaughter
So we do welcome creative approaches but I’ve already pointed out this approach isn’t new, don’t take it the wrong way. Think of it like, despite not referring to build guides you still discovered an powerful concept. That is an impressive thing imo.
“If I didn’t die I would have killed Benn’Jahr in 1 minute flat.”
Right but your invincible build did die. Invincible by definition is something that cannot be conquered in battle or war. You were conquered, ergo your build is not invincible.
As to the boss I was talking about I was talking about Grava. If you can beat him without studying what his attacks and such do before encountering him I would be very very surprised. I got one shot through blade barrier by him. Same thing happened against end boss of the AoM campaign as well. Maybe it was a frame glitch or something as sometimes I get glitches but it showed the barrier up and them striking through it which killed me.
Also I’m wondering if you have any idea of the calibre of build experts and players that have commented in this thread or how many hours of experience they have under their belts? They are trying to help you and you are obstinately defending your build as if it is the best thing ever. This will be the last I post on this topic as I don’t think this is constructive.
Good luck with your build. Congratulations on doing well without following a guide
It doesn’t help that you’re repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting him to say anything different.
Title may be a bit overzealous, but would people really react differently if it was more accurately titled: “High-CDR Clairvoyant build for 100% uptime invincibility skills?” I highly doubt it.
To build creator: the gist of the criticisms against it is that the build is so reliant on having these skills at 100% uptime that you have no breathing room to concentrate on killing your enemies. Your build concentrates on Aether damage, but Aether doesn’t have a DoT component, so the time spent using Blade Barrier screeches your DPS into a halt - you can see it in your videos. That also means you can’t run away and allow any DoTs to whittle the opponent down while having a chance to re-position and have your skills ready because it doesn’t have any DoTs that will make a substantial dent in your opponent (forgive me if any of your current builds do, I’m just going off what I saw in the videos).
It also doesn’t help that anything that disrupts your 100% uptime skills will instantly kill your build. AoM has a lot of enemies with skill disruption, and even having 80% resistance doesn’t mean much when even a fraction of a second interruption allows multiple enemies to zerge you at once. Not only that, but Stun (Iron Maiden) & Freeze (Moosilauke), even small fractions of it, will kill your character as well.
Having a Steps of Torment (with Moosilauke fight) video, a Cronley’s Lair (with Fabius fight) video, and a Port of Valbury (Valadarn fight optional, but nice to have) video would provide a lot more valuable evidence as to whether your build will ultimately be successful or not.
Build doesn’t have more Energy than HP like your first iteration = your build’s dead to me.
EDIT: D’oh! How did I - and everyone else in this thread forget this? There is already a build that works almost exactly like this in the Gladiator farmer thread. Ptirodaktill’s HC CDR Spellbinder It uses the same principles as this build - using Aeon’s Hourglass to have near 100% uptime on invulnerability skills - but Necromancer has far better skills to support the build concept, including Spectral Binding + Wrath, 21/16 Bone Harvest and 26/16 transmuted Callidor’s Tempest. It also uses no MI’s to have everything it wants, so if anything affecting your build is getting nerfed, it’s because of how much more powerful this build is compared to yours.
Yes, this is a very similar build, just using necromancer instead. I’ll see what I can learn from the devotions, skills, and gearing of that build.
Like I said in the OP, this build is a WIP. I’m by no means a Grim Dawn Veteran (if anyone thought I was implying that, that was not my intent). I don’t know precisely how to itemize a build effectively. I think with some tweaks this build can be viable, but I need to look into things more. At the very least that Spellbinder is a cool build I can try for a similar playstyle.
Some people should take a deep breath and calm down a little. It’s nothing else but a game after all. The amount of self entitlement on this forum is kind of concerning.
Take this opinion with a grain of salt, but i hate this. I hate what the Crucible did to this game. Now the validity of a build is based if it can solo Crucible Gladiator, side content that is not even tied to the main game.
Now it’s no longer “Can it kill all Nemeses (either Zantarin or IM, can’t have both on the same character), Mad Queen, rogue dungeon final bosses and do their dungeons fast, without dying once, With maybe Mog or Ravager as optional?”, but instead “Can it solo Gladiator Crucible?” everytime someone posts a build.
I know the Crucible was a kickstarter goal. I know it’s supposed to be harder because by nature horde modes are most of the time the hardest content in a game. I know a lot of people like this mode and use it as a bar for the ultimate test of a build and that’s fine. I know my stipulation for a valid build is just as subjective as soloing Gladiator Crucible. But that doesn’t stop me from despising what it did to the game.
Not trying to crap on anyone’s parade or force people to dislike the Crucible because by all means, enjoy it. But this is how honestly feel about it. I know i shouldn’t feel upset about something so small, but it’s been building up for a while.
i dont like crucible.
its boring, its laggy, and it hurts my eyes.
but fact is campaign content is so easy you simply cannot distinguish good build with bad ones by beating the campaign. remember the days of vanilla where all we had was “X second MQ, Y second fabius”? ya i’ve lived those days.
crucible is the best we’ve got for build testing and its reasonably balanced nongimmicky place.
even then, crucible with buffs has become easy that just about any sensible build can do it, and hence without buffs is the new crucible.
hopefully when they update it , it will be harder, but i don’t expect the mechanics to change much
Oh I don’t disagree, solo crucible is too bland and boring. I don’t even do it on builds that can clear the damn thing. It really sucks tbh, and like jajaja said I doubt extra waves and new maps would change this. The only time I solo crucible is when I’m in need of shit-ton of items i.e when AoM was released.
Sticking to the same map for 20-25 minutes isn’t what I consider fun. I really hate to say it but G.Rifts are slightly better than this imo. I haven’t played PoE so don’t know what Mapping is.
On a side note, party crucible is still fun as long as you’re trolling around and trying your best to get your party murdered
I don’t think anybody likes the Crucible, to be honest. After 5-10 hours of non-stop farming in there you are going to be burnt-out for a week. 20-30 extra waves, Grava + Kuba and more ‘unfair’ mutators won’t change that, of course.
I’m going to state here what I believe to be some unpopular opinions:
Going no banners is one thing, but going no Amatok/Ulzuin actually hurts your score. There is a chest in the Crucible that scales of your score so I don’t care if I lose a couple of points, because in the end I will end up with 100 or close to that number even with the 100-150 wave strategy. Yes, I do understand the “handicap principle” burrowed from ethology but you guys are hurting yourselves. There is a small, but significant difference that adds up through different runs to what you get in that chest if you go beyond 10.000.000.
In most “Metroidvania”-like games, when you finish the game you unlock a new character that is actually weaker than what you start with. In ARPGs, as a whole, the exact opposite stands. More articulately, the more you play, the better the items you get and the better the rolls. The only challenge remaining in GD is not to play through the campaign again, beat the nemeses and the Crucible with what you know it will work, but doing so with a bad class combo with minimal gear support. This is the “handicap principle” taken to the extreme…if the game can’t challenge you anymore, challenge yourself.
This is also (and Ch’thon inventive builds :p) what determined me to think about an “Impossible Builds” thread in which we actually try to play and finish the game not with what is OP, but with what is obviously UP (sets and classes).
If it weren’t for the fact that Campaign had such terrible farming routes in terms of Legendaries + Blueprints, Crucible wouldn’t be maligned so much because it would be just that - an optional stomping grounds to test your build’s potential. Crucible has such a maligned reputation because for such a long time, it was basically the only place to reliably farm items for self-found build ideas and thus became “the only thing worth doing” for many people. I would suspect people would enjoy it more if Campaign had good enough farming routes that people wouldn’t feel forced to run it over and over again; even the best features get stale when you have to repeat something 100 times.
I happen to love the Crucible, but that’s because there are so few pet builds that can even complete Crucible because of how many enemies swarm the caster and forces the player to micromanage every aspect of the battle to come out on top. I can see why it’s boring to casters and tanks who have so much DPS / survivability that every mob is trash filler and you can wipe everything without having to differentiate how each monster type / Hero makes each wave unique.
I’m okay with Crucible No Buffs + No Banners being the gold standard - Tributes and Banners do what they need to do - help the players who may have incomplete gearing + quirky build ideas and give them a chance to get them over the hump. If even one piece of equipment that wasn’t BiS meant that you couldn’t complete the content, people would be complaining about how they need to farm for hundreds of hours just to get that one piece they absolutely have to add.
