The Status Quo of Grim Dawn. More Grim or More Dawn?

[kukuhimanpr]

Grim Dawn, as implied by the name and order of both words,
represent a world where darkness reign supreme over humankind (Grim).
But mankind never lost their hope for better tomorrow (Dawn).

They have the will of fires and steel in their hearts to survive the catastrophe
(notice the colours of the GRIM DAWN fonts in top of this forums? a fiery
steel…)

The status quo I put in thread title is a question for devs and players…

(spoiler warning)

after the taken and its allies defeat the threats in main game, ashes of
malmouth, and forgotten gods… we need to roughly estimate the status quo:
-how much ‘grim’ is the current state of the world?
-how much ‘dawn’ are there in the current state of the world?

‘grim’ things example:
-aetherials getting ready to retaliate for their defeat at malmouth (and they
can flee from a dead host to repossess another host…)
how big are their forces are compared to mankind? do they depend on loyal
human subjects’ supply of hosts for replenishing their forces?
-cthonians… how much threat they have after loghorrean’s defeat?
-undead of arkovia, after clearing the arkovian undercity and steps of
torment, are they still threatening? or are they laid to rest permanently?
-wild beasts of cairn (aether/chaos/eldritch corrupted or just plain wild), are
their threat increasing or not?
-dranghouls, grobles, trolls, cannibals tribes and such… are they capable of
forming a significant army to threaten mankind? or are they in state of
isolation?
-other threats that are celestial/intangible in their nature, and often only
mentioned in texts for their danger…

‘dawn’ things example:
-surviving settlements and factions that joined the taken and black legion
(devil’s crossing, homestead, rhowari, kymon/vigil/anastheria/barrowholm,
coven of ugdenbog, malmouth resistance)
-the three witch gods coven (they claim their three gods as the true master
of mankind… so they definitely want mankind to survive)
-mogdrogen silently doing whatever… known to be prioritizing the rhowari’s
survival… and may assist mankind more based on his response to the taken’s
work proving human strength to survive.
-any scattered human groups unaffiliated with vile factions… they aren’t
shown as factions, but there are clearly groups that survived out there in the
wilds. some unknown groups might have great assets that could help the
resistance.
-any direct and indirect helps from celestial/intangible beings that assist the
mankind. we see their presence and impacts clearly, either from masteries,
devotions, or items used by the taken… and other factions can also have
them…

so… right now… in the status quo after main campaign, ashes of malmouth,
and forgotten gods, do we have more ‘grim’ or more ‘dawn’? or do we not
have the ability to estimate the status quo at all? completely left at the
mercies of the celestials’ plans?

[myhr2]

If I were to qualify it, I’d say GD’s setting is a post-apocalyptic one with a good touch of Lovecratian horror.

Is the Mad Max universe Grim or Dawn? On one hand, civilization did collapse. On the other hand, humanity still exists. To me, you cannot simply oppose the Grim and the Dawn, in fact, I think the entire expression is very suited to the situation : something happened, something terrible, and things will never be like they were. But still, life goes on.

I won’t pronounce myself whether you should call it hope or if it’s too naive, but the way I see it, GD is a very melancholic game, you stumble on pages and pages of heartbreaking stories depicting the normal lives of little people that almost certainly got destroyed by the cataclysmic events that happened. See it that way : the Korvan Empire has been in ruins for centuries, while the Erulean Empire just fell a couple weeks or months ago. But you can trace parallels between them : the Korvan Empire never recovered, yet, you can still go there, there are still people living in its outskirts.

I do believe it was never the dev’s intention to take a stance on what happens next. GD’s story is the revenge story of the Taken, left for dead, had to kill bad guys to be accepted by other survivors, and proved immensely gifted at doing just that. But the rest is up in the air, and I think it’s a good thing.

After all, I think one crucial thing that left a bad taste in the mouth of many players at Diablo 3 release was that the story shifted from one of a grim and crass world where humanity fights demons with barely any chance, through sheer determination, and where one mistep can means the end, to a story about a cosmical conflit of punching supernatural beings into the face. A slim difference, imho, but a significant one nonetheless.

[kukuhimanpr]

If I were to qualify it, I’d say GD’s setting is a post-apocalyptic one with a good touch of Lovecratian horror.

Is the Mad Max universe Grim or Dawn? On one hand, civilization did collapse. On the other hand, humanity still exists. To me, you cannot simply oppose the Grim and the Dawn, in fact, I think the entire expression is very suited to the situation : something happened, something terrible, and things will never be like they were. But still, life goes on.

I won’t pronounce myself whether you should call it hope or if it’s too naive, but the way I see it, GD is a very melancholic game, you stumble on pages and pages of heartbreaking stories depicting the normal lives of little people that almost certainly got destroyed by the cataclysmic events that happened. See it that way : the Korvan Empire has been in ruins for centuries, while the Erulean Empire just fell a couple weeks or months ago. But you can trace parallels between them : the Korvan Empire never recovered, yet, you can still go there, there are still people living in its outskirts.

I do believe it was never the dev’s intention to take a stance on what happens next. GD’s story is the revenge story of the Taken, left for dead, had to kill bad guys to be accepted by other survivors, and proved immensely gifted at doing just that. But the rest is up in the air, and I think it’s a good thing.

After all, I think one crucial thing that left a bad taste in the mouth of many players at Diablo 3 release was that the story shifted from one of a grim and crass world where humanity fights demons with barely any chance, through sheer determination, and where one mistep can means the end, to a story about a cosmical conflit of punching supernatural beings into the face. A slim difference, imho, but a significant one nonetheless.

great points there, especially ‘something happened, something terrible, and
things will never be like they were. But still, life goes on.’ this sums up the
main theme of grim dawn.

for me, grim dawn’s story is divided into 2 parts:
the taken’s story which is kinda superhero in its nature (unavoidable in most arpg),
and the bleak world of cairn, where celestial intrigues tore it apart, with its
residence clinging to life stubbornly dawn after dawn (just like your comparison
with korvan empire’s fate)

i see many of the taken’s dialogue choices have sombre emotions to it. particularly
when talking with civilians and children npcs. the taken feels more human in that
parts, but when taken returns to the field, its superhero time… all the time…

i’m kinda afraid that gd is teetering on the edge of following the footsteps of
diablo 3’s supernatural punch cosmical (and comical) beings in the face for moar powa:eek:.
but i think that can be countered by more grim lore notes and npc interactions.
grim dawn does well in those two.

so… maybe for you the status quo is grim and dawn at the same time? like they
always exist side by side in gd.

[Zantai]

i’m kinda afraid that gd is teetering on the edge of following the footsteps of
diablo 3’s supernatural punch cosmical (and comical) beings in the face for moar powa:eek:.
but i think that can be countered by more grim lore notes and npc interactions.
grim dawn does well in those two.

This is difficult to portray in gameplay without looking/playing dumb, but the intent is always that there are other heroes alongside you battling the same foes.

Ulgrim and the Black Legion are pushing into Aetherial territory with you (Ulgrim even helps you fight the Loghorrean and slays it in the void). Creed is working in the background researching your foes and coordinating assaults.

The Witch God Cults fight alongside you into the Korvan temples.

Sending dozens of NPCs into a final boss fight might make sense thematically, but it doesn’t make for good gameplay.

[kukuhimanpr]

This is difficult to portray in gameplay without looking/playing dumb, but the intent is always that there are other heroes alongside you battling the same foes.

Ulgrim and the Black Legion are pushing into Aetherial territory with you (Ulgrim even helps you fight the Loghorrean and slays it in the void). Creed is working in the background researching your foes and coordinating assaults.

The Witch God Cults fight alongside you into the Korvan temples.

Sending dozens of NPCs into a final boss fight might make sense thematically, but it doesn’t make for good gameplay.

that makes sense… i think the decision to only add generic npc allies in the field before bosses’ room is
a win-win solution without affecting much of the gameplay. ulgrim assisting you in early part of final boss
battle is a nice touch though, because it adds more insight into his character.

maybe npc assistance is good for main quests, while optional quests and challenges doesn’t need them
to increase the challenges’ difficulty. at least the npc’s have noticeable presence on the world for the most part.

hopefully devs can do things like this more.