Theorycrafting: Warlord Retaliation build for the upcoming FG expansion

So, with Grimtools updated with the Oathkeeper class, I am playing around with it trying to plan out my build for the expansion. Planning to go for Warlord (Oathkeeper/Soldier), and want to make him as tanky as possible. Will be going Sword&Board and would like to use retaliation damage as well.

I used to always just pick a build from the forums and follow it religiously, but with the FG expansion I would really like to try actually to come up with something on my own, but I would like to hear opinions/advice from others as well.

Any input or advice is welcome as I am no pro. Is the build viable at all and should I skip it all together, or could it work maybe with some adjustments?

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eVLDvE4V

It looks like… idk, seems pretty unfocused. Are you just gonna go with retaliation, you have no means of attacking at all it seems and no resistance reductions… seems to me that you just took a bunch of random items that has something to do with retal dmg and called it a build.

This is about what I will go with https://www.grimtools.com/calc/lNkyyq6V have not min/maxed yet since I am waiting for the new devotions and faction gear

If you want to go full on tank and retaliation you might take inspiration from this thread http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74791
which made a tanky witchblade counter striker.

Replace the occultist with oathkeeper, shuffle some devotions and gear for more retal, pick a few placeholder skills till we figure out how things actually work and here is my first pass at something that is unoptimized.

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/4NOWvJdN

It has the tank stats to rival what malawiglenn posted with big health, big absorb, big armor, and 100% block recovery with 96% block chance and roughly 240K in average retaliation damage when at full proc power.

But more importantly, unlike your build it has ways to leverage that retaliation damage.

First there is the counter strike. Not updated on grimtools yet but spoiled elsewhere is the fact that counter strike will now add retaliation damage and this counter strike is tricked out to being procable every .2 seconds instead of once a second.

Second is Targo’s Hammer. Those block numbers from before mean that’s a lot of potentially spawned hammers each of which will multi-hit for 33% of the aforementioned 240K retaliation damage, ie 80K hits.

Now is where things get a little dicey which is why my points are spread out funny to show possible options. I simply don’t know how these skills play together yet.

Option 1 is based on Retribution and assumptions. Assuming it works like the add-ons to savagery like storm touched, that is 8% retaliation to any attack for the next 2 seconds while the charge is on. On the further assumption it is not going to require 100% weapon damage to get the full 8% retaliation added then its time to spin and win. I’ve read that baseline Eye of Reckoning hits 5 times a second. 80k of applied retaliation a second is not the most spectacular dps ever but hey its better than not using your retaliation at all.

Option 2 is to hit things in the face with a modified Aegis of Menhir for 38% retaliation damage once every 2.5 seconds (with a 20% chance for instant cooldown reset). The reason I like it less than Option 1 is that the skill has a stun and we want things hitting us and being retaliated on, not stunned. (This is also why some of the devotion picks look funny since we don’t want to be procing petrifies, knock downs, and stuns. We live with the stun chance on Targo’s Hammer because we have to, not because we like it).

If Option 1 doesn’t work shift points from there into Avenging Shield in Option 2. If Option 1 works you can shift points from Option 2 into Ascension and Clarity of Purpose

Why is not this shield used more in retal/counterstrike builds?

https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8831

Thanks a lot for your input guys, I really appreciate it.

malawiglenn, you’re dead right, my build is pretty unfocused, which was the main reason why I posted here looking for advice from you experienced guys. Yes, I was planning to go pure retaliation, and have enemies dying by attacking me. Maybe having one attack skill or pet on a side for damage. Your suggestion, using the Oathkeeper pet is a good suggestion, and I will certainly consider that. As for items, again you’re right, I just took random retaliation gear. My first sketch for the build was more focused on point usage and constellations.

Oh, and that shield looks badass! I’ll be playing solo and self found, so it will be a long time before I get anywhere near optimal gear, which is also why I just slapped random retaliation gear on my grimtools char. But if I do find a shield like that I’d be more than happy to use it :slight_smile:

Lind, thanks a lot for your very detailed input, this is really useful. Yes, I love the outlook of counter strike.

Actually, what inspired me to go for a build of this kind is this old thread:

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36239

I have recently tried playing a retaliation Warder like that in HC, and it worked out quite well. I died in both attempts, but only because I got cocky and went into some of the harder side content (Port Valbury and Hidden Path) that I should have passed early on in HC. In all normal content I really felt safe, smooth and nothing really felt like a real danger. This was my inspiration to try a retaliation Warlord in FG based loosely on the Warder build above.

As for your suggestions, I really like them, and I agree with you that your option 1 would be optimal, but if it doesn’t work out that way, option 2 would be a good alternative.

Hi.

I’m actually working hard at phys retal warlord atm nad from the start all i can say without spoilers is that:

You have to use Stoneguard full set. I’d also go for Zolhan shield but more on that later

You will need celestial presence for the RR. Also shattering smash or break morale.

The %retal to attack mechanic in OK is also used but until later i can’t say with what skill precisely

No use maxing Menhir will and resilience. You will need those points to complete the build.

Absolutely use Targo hammer proc and Boar proc. You will otherwise miss out on a lot of Retal to attack mechanic that you will want.

Hope this helps. I love phys retal warlord concept and the new mechanic interests me the most in FG

Just messing around. Items were thrown together without modifiers because I don’t actually think I can obtain any of it, but it’s nice to have it there.

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2ddwxJ2

In reality, I would just have to slot in whatever I’ve got. Skills might need more work.

Now I’m looking at Sentinel.

Basically an Evil Eye Occultist with Ascension, (Summon Guardian ->) Celestial Presence, and Path of the Three. (10% CDR, bonus poison duration… straight upgrade to the offensive side of Possession). One point Judgment and Vire’s Might for CC + devotion procs.

Modified Celestial Presence lowers acid resist, according to grimtools.

Anyone can use Ascension, if they don’t use much else from Oathkeeper.

Enough points left to max Doom Bolt.

Something like this. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/0V0qPMXZ