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What do you mean by not good all arounders? I get they’re slower in 75-76 as far as raw speed to clear, a step behind in Crucible. But, otherwise they’re pretty competitive with their non-pet siblings and even potentially more powerful in some aspects, no?
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That stings… 
I think this is a good idea because at SR 75/76 some builds cannot showcase their tankiness fully whereas running uncapped SR seems too abstract / not useful for me (I say that being inexperienced with high SR so take it with a grain of salt) and be also PITA to test.
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Oh, I agree
Though, maybe a few high-performing pet builds should be tested at very high SR and be included in the honorable mentions ? even if they don,t make the grades
Just a thought.
I disagree on that.
Some pet builds can complete SR 100+ and kill all super bosses… that’s pretty much all-around good.
They are super tanky, can deal equally easily single target damage and AoE, have no weakness when it comes to facing particular opponents, and their CC resists are usually really high (or they don’t even need them to be)
They are not speedsters, but all-rounders ? definitely
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Yeah, but do any of these make into the list. 
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What do you mean my Bleed Goredrinker purifier and Acit PRM Warlock aren’t top 20 !?!? 
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Agree to disagree. When it comes to rankings and criteria, you can’t just put aside damage in a game that’s basically about dealing damage.
That being said, phys does indeed shamelessly dominate…
You mean Soldier? 
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Regardless of what triggered the latest nerfs, they seem fair.
As it should 
All-rounders implies competitive speed, is it not? Otherwise what exactly is all-rounding about it? Our list didn’t favor speed over tankiness. None of the pet builds we tested was close in tankiness+speed+reliability+convenience+gear access to top20.
I was expecting a sea of comments about pets in here and on reddit. But tbh i was expecting at least one single concrete up to date build with some videos, among the walls of text.
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I’m not under the impression that pet builds perform significantly worse in that regard compared to other builds…
DPS is important of course, but if a build can survive (and kill) in an environment where another build dies, I don’t think a lower damage output is a knock on it…
By that logic, any super-high damage glass canon is the best build because its damage is through the roof.
I understand that this list was made on the basis of “reliably and comfortably farming SR75-76”, and that within that metric, the builds that do it the fastest are the best.
But if a build CAN do higher SR and the other one cannot, then suddenly kill speed takes a very big backseat.
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as long as you don’t get rewards for higher SR, then what is the point of going higher tho?
if it’s purely for flex points, there already exists builds that can do sr 130-150, but they are some slow ass farmers, so if the metric is suddenly high sr, what’s the point of a build that can do sr 85, 0 rewards, sr 90, 0 rewards, when they still can’t compete with the sr 130-150 builds, but easily beats them hands down in farming content?
it’s like you’re building slow, to just build slow, for no benefit other than flexing that you can do high SR, but at the same time still not manage to “truly” compete in high SR because others still went much higher
imo that makes these types “farming criteria” much more valid as a metric
and if the people are up for it, there is always the Grim Sheet to keep the general point score going for high SR builds
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I guess I don’t understand the “all arounders” comment. Not as fast in 75-76, but but generally competitive to stronger in other areas, imo. What makes them not good all arounders, just their 75-76 clear speed?
This thread is really the Fastest / Most Efficient SR75-76 Farmers. Just my two cents.
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not just fastest/efficient SR 75-76 farmers
but “everything”
the build handles well in Cruci,
gear isn’t mega fantasy/ludicrous to obtain,
and the build scores points in some fashion against Celestials too
i’m guessing if the goal was purely efficient 75-76 farm, leaving out those other 3 factors, then the list would/could look a little bit different in the rank sorting
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I understand that, and I don’t disagree with your list.
Still, your tests were made with specific conditions, and those conditions didn’t favor pet builds. Which is totally ok!
“All-around” is also a subjective term.
Someone else could have decided that their definition of all-around includes things like “how deep in SR can it go?” or “Can my 6 year-old daughter play this ?” or “can it be played one-handed, drunk?”
I don,t have one to propose that would score high on the set of criterias you laid out, which is why I think it’s perfectly fine that there are no pet builds in your list.
I’m just saying 3 things here:
That complaining that there is no pet builds on this list makes no sense unless your criticism is on how the tests were constructed. (Which is not even something I’m doing, I think what you guys have chosen as your benchmark makes total sense)
That there are some legitimately great pet builds out there that, if the conditions and criterias were different, would have made the list. This is not my point, and I’m not advocating for pet builds to be included here.
And that broadly saying that pet builds are not good “all-rounders” is false, because “all-around” includes a LOT of things that aren’t (and shouldn’t) be considered in this list. And that there is no pet builds here is not proof that pet builds are not good all-rounders.
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That sounds perfectly reasonable IMO
Grimsheet is one such list, with a different set of criterias, that favor those things that pet builds are good at.
And it’s not any more or less valid than the list here.
If anything, like you said:
Agreed, this list here is even more … I’ll say “useful” … than grimsheet, because the conditions laid out to score points are more down to earth and include things like tankiness, which grimsheet doesn’t.
This is starting to devolve into a discussion like “why is 2+2=4 when I think it should be 5.” First, there are different pet builds, not one pet build. I’ll assume ppl cry for the pet posterboy Beastcaller, so, in short, it objectively and factually sucks At least according to the clearly laid out criteria of this particular ranking. Maybe if there was a different ranking, something along the lines of “Top 20 Builds That Suck,” then idk, maybe Beastcaller would get an honorable mention since Top20 would probably be elemental melees and the likes.
As the title boldly states “best builds”, you can always object both the list and the criterias.
The system we went by accounts for the needs of the majority of the playerbase in terms of performance: stable, reliable, efficient and forgiving farming. Just to be clear, all top20 builds can pass SR90 and pass select SR100 with pharma.
If some virtual tin can with a shield or pet build can pass SR120 in half an hour, and is slow, sluggish and clunky to play otherwise, can you really, honestly say deep SR crawling alone warrants a “top” label. I think we can all agree it doesn’t.
I really want to be done with this particular convo. Neither of people participated in making the list has any personal disdain towards pet builds. Either suggest a concrete up to date build with results it has or make a sound proposition in the criterias for determining top builds.
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I’m totally on board with you here, no argument.
I’m not pushing for pet builds to be included at all if they don’t deserve to be.
In fact, if you read back, I’m defending your position and your list. I’m thankful for you guys making this list, and I’m happy with the set of benchmarks you chose for it.
I was basically saying this:
We’re on the same page here.
just gonna repost nofika4u’s comment regarding Pet builds
for those that either missed it (or think pets wasn’t tried)
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