⭐ Top 20 Softcore builds in Grim Dawn (An Opinion)

[Shax]

Under the same logic, shouldn’t you have posted a video of you fighting the Ravager so that I can be certain you didn’t throw the fight to make a point? Edit: this was a statement of logic. It wasn’t meant to be a catty challenge. You don’t need to provide a video which was kinda my point. sorry for the tone.

The reason I believe the claims without exhaustive evidence is because the people involved in this project have earned that kind of respect and trust over the years. I’ve played similar(and far less optimised) builds to some of the ones listed here, and they performed well enough for me to see the claims as credible based on my own experience. I have no logical reason to doubt.

[Cockatiel]

@Shax

Under the same logic, shouldn’t you have posted a video of you fighting the Ravager so that I can be certain you didn’t throw the fight to make a point?

If I were trying to dispute a proved claim, then perhaps.

@Shax

The reason I believe the claims without exhaustive evidence is because the people involved in this project have earned that kind of respect and trust over the years. I’ve played similar(and far less optimised) builds to some of the ones listed here, and they performed well enough for me to see the claims as credible based on my own experience. I have no logical reason to doubt.

But what if there were tweaks that need to be made to achieve those results?
Wouldn’t it be better for newer players to know exactly what needs changing?

[ya1]

@Cockatiel

Some are slower to clear but sturdier and are acknowledged as such while others might make up the missing points against superbosses, etc.

You keep using the same arguments and ppl keep refuting them with the same facts. Just try those builds and see. For the n-th time, all Top20 here do superbosses. All are capable of SR >100. All got orders of magnitude higher dmg than SR120+ specialized pet setups. Do those specialized setups deserve a place among the top builds because they can push higher in this singular challenge by sucking at dmg? That’s subjective but objectively no

@Cockatiel

If a build gets a tick mark on everything, it ends up with a high score and can be safely considered to be an all rounder.

Yup, and once more say I: pets are not it. They don’t get a tick mark on everything, just on one thing (maybe two, I concur, with no pharma celestials as the 2nd). Those SR120 pets got dmg on a level of meme builds or some of the recently posted forum purifier builds with Fire Strike at 8/12. You can argue that those criteria are unfair but you saying that SR120 pets got decent enough damage? Just play top all-rounder builds and see for yourself the difference.

[Dilrakai]

I can no longer resist. drags out lawn chair, makes popcorn, watches

[Zantai]

I think Cockatiel is perhaps taking too many cues from their mentor

Everyone should take a breath, take a step back and just look at this list as one perspective from a subset of the community, a subset that openly acknowledges their limits on certain aspects of the game, especially as it pertains to pets.

No list can tell you how to enjoy the game or what you personally consider the best or the most fun. ARPGs feature a very diverse community and we like to think (perhaps wishfully) that we’ve catered to many parts of it with Grim Dawn, so that everybody can find their fun.

[Cockatiel]

@ya1

Just try those builds and see. For the n-th time, all Top20 here do superbosses. All are capable of SR >100.

I tried. They fall short of all that when piloted by me. But I believe my piloting should not be the basis for the builds’ performance metrics.

@ya1

Yup, and once more say I: pets are not it. They don’t get a tick mark on everything, just on one thing (maybe two, I concur, with no pharma celestials as the 2nd). Those SR120 pets got dmg on a level of meme builds or some of the recently posted forum purifier builds with Fire Strike at 8/12. You can argue that those criteria are unfair but you saying that SR120 pets got decent enough damage? Just play top all-rounder builds and see for yourself the difference.

I am not talking about pets. I never argued pet builds were better.
All I am saying is that if a build can get to SR120, that is by no means a weak build and being able to farm 75-76 fastest does not equal to a strong build. They are simply built for different things.

Merely expanding on my answer to the question quoted below-

@ya1

Then how would you define scoring parameters for Top20 BUILDS as opposed to Top20 FARMERS?

[Dilrakai]

climbs on soapbox

(i) Crate owns and created this game, so any buffs or nerfs are their decision;
(ii) This is a game so play it how you want to;
(iii) I do cast some shame on the circle of back patting going on here, but ok;
(iv) it comes down to the pilot - I have a build that can finish 75-76 with 15:00 left on the clock… but I die on 75 in the boss room;
(v) THERE IS NO BEST BUILD, just best FOR YOU

I have dozens that can farm 75-76, a few Crate killers and Callagadra farmers. Is there anything served other than self-aggrandizing before you sail to Valinor with any of this? The builds are in the wild, open, posted… cannot players choose what they want without being told? eats popcorn waiting for any reply

P.S. I have also tried @Skelemental builds (sans stashed MI++) and have been as high as 110, so the clapping over 75 sounds hollow.

P.P.S. I would like to see the builders who are not regulars to take their shot, post their videos, and have an open competition, not a closed competition amongst 5 who consider themselves elite. I am sorry but no 5 speak for all of Grim Dawn.

climbs down

[ya1]

Ok then last reply. I happened to do some deep SR mostly with ritualists but I did that Bysmiel+3pc Beastcaller too. Idk the exact setup you use, and I don’t know what changed since then (I hear aggro was adjusted? Idk). Also, once Witching Hour and the Familiar amulet were nerfed ages ago, I stopped playing pets for real so I’m not an expert. Anyway, here is my breakdown of that build they used in Discord:

Solo dmg: 1 - meme dmg, struggles to kill healing nemeses at higher shards, susceptible to muts and resistant enemies.

AoE: 2 - hardly any better, pets can target multiple enemies at once but single pet dmg output is meme-level, pure meditative gameplay.

Sustain vs single: 8/9 - no so much sustain but the amount of meat makes pets some of the best tankers in the game with the sheer value of cushion thickness. However, once that threshold is reached in SR, there’s little one can do. Similarly, the summoner is often helpless against aggro mismanage/glitches resulting in a clown chase where enemies chase the summoner and the pets chase the enemies dealing little to no dmg.

Sustain vs. crowd: 7/8 - same as above but with nemesis crowds there’s a bit more risk of catching aggro.

Ease of play: 6/7 - arguably, having to pilot the summoner and the pets at the same time as well as avoid aggro and keep track of buffs and heals makes it imo less easy to play then it’s commonly thought. Also, imo the only reason to ever play this build is to tackle deep SR which is hard by nature.

Easy to put together: 5 - defined by two sets

That’s 29/32 from me. Not the worst but way below consideration.

[Cockatiel]

If you meant Maya’s Fluffy Squishy, I believe this is the latest setup - Conjurer, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.6) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

Btw, is there a particular score system like eg- 1mil dps = 6pts, 1.25mil = 7pts etc like how Grimsheet does with cruci times and sr shards?

[Dilrakai]

I propose a round-robin trial. Any builder who wishes to present themselves, we can agree on a time and server. Under competition, and with the weight of others adding to the difficulty, we can arrange a friendly competition. We all know that all builds can clear 75-76, sure, do you not want to compete in the Grimlympics to see who is fastest? Calla timers, Crate (for me) death counts, SR timers, Cruci 150-170 timers? This is intended to facilitate PVE building, so no PVP, just a challenge.

If you wish to be remembered as the best builders, what is your response to a free round-robin competition?

[eardianm]

P sure all builds listed already have 75-76, crucible, ravager videos available at minimum if you look up YouTube accounts. I don’t blame banana for not wanting to spend even more time than he did writing the op and pulling all videos for every build across months of testing, people are still going to find the nits to pick regardless

For example, Evoker vindi went through about 5 variations during testing, first with lee changing some gear for better tank/oa and then lots of devo experimentation. Lee, banana, and I all ended up with slightly different devo setups that had relatively small tradeoffs depending on what we wanted. Who wants to spend time sorting through all that times 20+ builds for the forum post when you can recommend people talk to the author directly for more details if interested.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

@desioner

prefer to SSF

in that case random legends and epics are much harder than greens and even single rare MIs

being able to targetfarm or even shop some of these MIs actually make it pretty easy to obtain, even with a rare affix

@desioner

I’m certain that if all of those MIs were truly RNG drops the performance of all of the builds would drop significantly

as someone that enjoys GDstashing filthy double rare or impossible affix combinations, i can tell you in most of these build cases it does not
again, keep in mind, obtaining a single rare+magick affixed MI is not that hard, so i don’t know where you’re getting the gripe against it, sure the specific combination of the 2 affixes chosen might be tough to directly obtain “reliably”, but technically not out of the realm of RNG possibilities,
swapping a magick affix for another rarely has much detrimental effect on performance, unless the build is detrimentally relying on that 1 magick affix to fix a vital stat like resist - oa/da/physique etc attributes and dmg is easily replaced
likewise for rare affixes, even rares that include dmg bonus
swapping a double rare for a single rare + magick also often has little overall effect
i’m not saying if you had a 5-6 green build with bis double rares, that swapping them to single rares+magick or single rare+random magicks that it wouldn’t affect the build, but i think you’re attributing waaay too much “fantasy” notion to these particular greens
again, as someone that does do actual fantasy builds, these are far from fantasy

[Nery]

@Dilrakai

I would like to see the builders who are not regulars to take their shot, post their videos, and have an open competition, not a closed competition amongst 5 who consider themselves elite. I am sorry but no 5 speak for all of Grim Dawn.

Since the save files are available, I would encourage players to actually try them out and cast their opinion. The more players=the better. Also players with different preferences and experience can improve the ranking.

PS, you should always use the word “toxic” before elite. Otherwise you discredit yourselves.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

@Dilrakai

it comes down to the pilot

this is very very true
a good example is, i can’t run a banana build in 4.30 or less in my wildest dreams (in fact my fastest ever cruci time is just barely under 5mins)
however
what it might indicate, when Banana, Roman, Nofika, Nery, MadLee etc etc etc et al can reliably run a build in the 4-4,30-5minute range, kill a celestial, reliably clear SR 75-76 in sub 8mins deathless/within timer, is that it’s a type of build that’s much safer and easier for me to play, than some other build, where they are running 5.30+cruci, not deathless, can’t kill celestials, and have a 50% success rate or less in SR75-76
if the top players run a build in cruci around the 4.30 range, then i “know” it’s potentially a build i can run 5.30 in, i know it’s a build i might have more than 50% success rate on, i know it’s a build i might have a slim shot in hell of defeating a celestial with, “i know it’s a build that has a much higher than average chance of success and not sucking”
obv pilot skills should always been factored, just because Banana, Nofika etc et al can literally break Crucible by how fast they clear, don’t mean we mortal can. But how their general potential performance is, specially something that has been cross tested and averaged out like this, can still give a regular mortal players a bunch of “avg useful metrics” that can be factored in for their own personal piloting.
“if a build is on average stronger, better, safer and easier in a top player’s pilot hands, it will likely be so in a casual player’s hands” - more so than some other build that struggles more on avg atleast

@Dilrakai

cannot players choose what they want without being told?

i think this is a general misunderstanding of what’s going on when these lists are being made, saw it with Grim Sheet too and the old GD class tier list
people are not telling other people what to play, or only play these. They are laying out certain criteria and metrics, and saying X build does “this and that” compared to Y and Z
nobody is telling players to play, or only play, avenger archon, but if a casual player goes looking for “what’s a super easier safe and strong build” or as often in this type of games “what’s the strongest/“best” build?” they can choose for themselves if such list and its criteria and metrics fit their definition and desired “strong build” to play

even if pet builds are not on this list i will still continue to recommend it if people ask for easy and strong laid back starters, with the usual caveat i always give about pet builds, that if you don’t like passive play it will probably bore you
i will continue to recommend vit caster because of how strong and safe they are levelling even on HC and have freebie dark one set
etc etc etc
this list doesn’t change the builds i recommend for levelling, it also doesn’t change what i recommend based on my personal enjoyment to play, nor that i ask/suggest people to factor in stuff they actually enjoy, and then structure their build around that play focus
but it does give people an additional set of information to base their choices on
and like or not, in this type of game, there is a large mentality of just “looking up the best build” and rolling with that, regardless if they will actually enjoy it or enjoy it the most, simply because if on average it’s easy strong and safe, then it will be so for them too, and “get the job done”
probably why there are so many Forcewave Warders out there

[Dilrakai]

All is relative - when I reset my BPs a few months ago and agreed to SSF a build for @Skelemental , acquiring Bysmiel (not needed) and Beastcaller was trivial (3 days on toon), however one blue item (Marrow Band) still eludes me (4 days 17 hours on toon).

MI++ ‘farming’ outside of those that can be bought in SK dungeons is essentially impossible. If a build relies on ANY skill bonus from an MI++, it is fully illegitimate unless Smart Loot will make ONE of the rare affixes preferential. Even getting an MI++ with appropriate affixes from a vendor is difficult. I screenshot them at vendors lest friends think I have fallen to the dark side.

All builds should be posted, and tested, with GD Stashed ‘no-affix’ items. Then and only then can one state the power of the build, rather than the items.

P.S. Rare affixes have skill bonuses often, remember, and if that falls on a critical breakpoint, that will damage or cripple a build.

Conclusion :: Remove all affixes, and allow people to test legitimate, obtainable builds. And please do not say ‘you can download the build’.

IMHO.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

@Dilrakai

All is relative - when I reset my BPs a few months ago and agreed to SSF a build for @Skelemental , acquiring Bysmiel (not needed) and Beastcaller was trivial (3 days on toon), however one blue item (Marrow Band) still eludes me (4 days 17 hours on toon).

you’re comparing set items, where as i’m comparing RNG legends, RNG legends, like your RNG marrowband is much harder to obtain SSF than single rare MIs, even with a specific rare affix

@Dilrakai

MI++ ‘farming’ outside of those that can be bought in SK dungeons is essentially impossible

no

@Dilrakai

If a build relies on ANY skill bonus from an MI++, it is fully illegitimate

no, because believe it or not, a +2 skill bonus actually doesn’t always/“often” have that huge effect or impact on a build, unless it’s because that bonus specifically unlocks something special on the skill, like 3rd blade spirit, in most other cases it’s a negligible dmg loss impact
but moreover, since none of these builds relies on a +2 affix in such way, i don’t understand what’s even the argument of it here?
and the ones that do have +2 skills they benefit from, ie +2 pahantasmal blades or +2righteous fervor on PB and RF builds, are on easily obtainable affixes that are biased towards that affix/dmg type, or can be crafted

@Dilrakai

Even getting an MI++ with appropriate affixes from a vendor is difficult

difficult, far from impossible, and actually quite doable for the weapon slots (which i think is the only ones that use double rares in these builds?)
i both think some people are vastly overestimating the difficulty in obtain these MIs or affix, or even potential double rare MIs, even including 1 specific affix, much more so when the item can either be shopped or quick farmed - especially when it’s a dmg type the item is weighted with bias towards; getting a double rare sandspitter of Fervor for +2 RF is not actually that hard
i think the hardest item to obtain in this build list is the Blaze Heralds?, but i also know that replacing it with a single rare+magick affix doesn’t detrimentally break the build or the performance
(why builders have a proclivity to use double rare weapons when they don’t use double rares in other slots i don’t know, so why single rare blaze heralds wasn’t actually used i cant’ answer)

[Retal_Abuser]

Some of the builds that made honourable mention.

Cyclone Archon vs Ravager of Flesh

Diviner Spellbinder SR 75-76 ( bad maps/spawns)

Diviner Spellbinder SR 75-76 ( minus hp mutator)

Diviner Spellbinder SR 75-76 ( crit mutator)

Diviner Spellbinder SR 75-76 ( 2 short rooms)

Diviner Spellbinder naked ex

Diviner Spellbinder Crucible 4/3

Diviner Spellbinder vs Ravager of Minds

Diviner Spellbinder vs Callagadra

Dinner Spellbinder vs Crate

Diviner Spellbinder SR 110 Bosses (one death to Fabius)

Nofika's updated Vanquisher Templar vs Callagadra ( with pierce res augments)

Dark One Ritualist vs Ravager of Flesh

Dark One Ritualist vs Callagadra

Fire FW Commando Crucible Naked Ex

Fire FW Commando SR 100 (easy bosses/ easy room)

Fire FW Commando vs Crate of Entertainment

Fire FW Commando vs Callagadra

Fire FW Commando vs Ravager of Souls

[ya1]

@Dilrakai

All builds should be posted, and tested, with GD Stashed ‘no-affix’ items.

That’s quite radical. No builds here, unless I missed sth, live or die by rare mastery affixes with specific ranks. Afaik if a build had serious holes that had to be fixed by slapping sth like 3x Aggressive or Vampiric or rare multi-res affixes, it would have been reflected in the scoring. If a build is reliant on a Kaisan Eye or Magi rings, it’s reflected heavily in the scoring.

Anyways, no green mafia is dead, MI are a norm. Testing builds that rely on modifiers or conversions found on MI without any affixes would only scuff the whole ranking thing where (outside a few outliers) the variance in performance is already quite small and hard to pinpoint.

However, if GD2 is ever to exist, I do recommend implementing a mechanism to reroll affixes because I agree it’s still a chore to a get a single rare matching MI.

[Dilrakai]

I appreciate your points, though do not understand the ‘no green mafia’ reference.

I would fully support an ability to spend a normal resource (iron) at a vendor (inventor) to ‘roll’ the affixes you wanted.

However I stand by my point - if you are going to represent a build as best in class, the caveat should only ever be ‘ANY affixes will do better’. I tire of the builds which I test for builders, which upon reaching 94 I realize that I need their MI++ pants to patch all holes (I play, I do not GT). Then comes the hole-patching scramble because I do not have an MI++ with +50x resist.

If you want to post a best in class, Top 20, I believe it should function with GD Stashed no-affix items.

[Duskdeep86]

@Nery

@Gnomish_Inquisition

just gonna repost nofika4u’s comment regarding Pet builds

Pet builds tested for this list:

Fire/cold/lightning/chaos Beastcaller Conjurer.
Chaos Lost Souls Cabalist.
Ghol Ritualist and Cabalist with skeletons.

for those that either missed it (or think pets wasn’t tried)

I also did few more pet builds.

Bleeding(with some acid) Beastcaller Conjurer for instance is somewhat of a decent all-arounder build. I did 5:15 Crucible, 12 minutes SR 75/76 Crucible and 2:50 Ravager. Speed was lacking compared to my usual attempts. Build was tanky but Ravager managed to kill 2 pets, so had to respawn them. I also lost 2x pets in SR run. With little bit of better piloting perhaps is avoidable. Also when you have dead pet, you need to switch bars to summon new one and in Crucible new pet don’t get benefit of the buffs. So lower QoL and few quirks. Also I used double rare MI.

Cold Beastcaller and elemental Bysmiel Conjurer are way off from being competitive. I even noticed no one tried before mixing fire Skeletons with Shaman pets. Now I know why.

Anyway my point is lot of different pet builds were tested and I already laid my statements.

I select a v1196 fire pet conjurer compare with your pet build. base on I only play HC mode, so will put little more ability for surrival than SC character.
1196 fire pet conjurer except SR 75-76 didnt record videos, all other is record. Cru(no test, because SR drop equipment better than CR) but I will use 1194 fire & acid pet conjurer run 7576 video 6m46s

1196 Fire pet conjure SR 95~100 all celestial
1194 Acid & Fire pet conjurer 6.46 run SR 75~76
1190 Lightning pet conjure SR 110 ~ 117

I’m not trying to prove how strong the summoner is, In fact, after many times of nerf, summonner not suitable for fast run SR& CR，but the summoner should not be buried or ignore from the past to the future.
And my friends already passed SR 180 by conjurer summoner & warlord passed SR 200 in SC mode.

BTW I don’t care about this top ranking, nerf or buff. because I play only MOD now.