I bet the HC players would love that :rolleyes:
Kind of weird you were complaining about trash mobs killing you constantly just a couple of days ago. http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72255
Well made builds are supposed to take care of trash mobs easily, that’s the most basic thing a good build needs to do.
Well that would certainly be a bad change.
Purely theoretical you could buff the damageoutput of some mobs. Wouldnt make them harder to kill (clearspeed still up), but they would pose some threat and you would have to be more aware.
I agree with powbam, trash are meant to be what their described as, trash. They are the inconvenience to the next hero/boss mob. Exactly how they are in other games, specifically raids in MMOs.
Let’s put an Aleksander or ten in the middle of packs of Ascended Spellbreakers and Ascended Myrmidons.
That would put a even bigger road block on Ultimate for new players, who don’t own strong items to make them ignore trash mob damage.
Trash is normally meant to be sweep away as the name osuggest, most RPGs and specially ARPGs have a similar designs and it works. For GD some end game areas, like Chtonic rifts and Malmouth have annoying trash that take a lot longer to kill if your gear is just ok and if they gangbang you you can die to them.
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Not even that - in Ultimate nothing but quests give any perceptible amount of xp.
The reward would be if the battles were fun. Right now trash packs are neither fun nor a chore, they’re just trivial minor obstacles you sweep away with the press of one button and continue running to wherever you’re going. Upgrading to fun while continuing to not be a chore would be good. Many other rpgs accomplish that, though the following may explain the issue:
Yeah, this is probably it. I’m only tangentially an ARPG player (played Diablo when it came out, wasn’t impressed; played Torchlight many years ago, wasn’t impressed; played a ridiculous amount of Borderlands 2/The Pre-Sequel, finally took a break to see if the fantasy side of this subgenre was any better and came here - and indeed it is much better, yay! :D) so the conventions here are not what I’m used to. Though I do note that BL2/TPS are ARPGs and their trash enemies are neither trivial nor boring.
That’s exactly not how they are in MMOs. I can think of raids where the trash pulls were harder than the boss fight at the end. And I’ve never seen any trash in a raid that can be swept aside with no thought or coordination required, like the trash in this game. Attempting to do so would have been a good way to wipe the group.
Like I said above, trash in this game doesn’t even rise to the level of an inconvenience. Press one button, trash are all dead, keep running; they may as well not even exist.
I find sweeping them away with 1 button to be “fun”. They’re just supposed to be minor obstacles until you reach a hero mob and when farming anything this is exactly how you want things to be.
Let me give another example. I just farmed Sentinel yesterday for the level 94 Eldritch Gaze blueprint. It took me about 6 minutes to clear the dungeon and get the blueprint first go. Now let’s pretend every trash mob held me up by around 30 seconds before reaching the sentinel. It would be frustratingly painful to farm anything right? A 6 minute run would turn into 15 or 20 minutes etc etc.
^This. Exactly this.
I get your point OP. Even if you were struggling just a short while ago and took advantage of experienced players to optimize your build to the point that things got easier (go figure), There still is a large discrepancy.
But, as others said, with this game type and its current design (the RNG and loot grind), having trash battle last longer would not be enjoyable. I personally enjoy the balance between exploding trash and difficult named bosses.
reminds me allot of D2, which is what it’s really modeled after. besides, with the RNG the way it is, people wouldn’t bother even playing the game if it took 30m to get to one boss, and you had to farm that boss 20x just for a remote chance of getting one item out of a 5 item set that you need to optimize the build you like. people would leave the game in droves. It would set up a whole change of balance, loot drop, and mechanics changes that simply aren’t worth the dev time. It’s fine as it is. Plenty of people love it and will play it for years to come.
What this highlights is actually that there is a problem even BEFORE.
Nothing when (and that’s the important part) PLAYING THE GAME should be an unbearable chore! Reducing the importance of fights to nothing more than a “hindrance to farming” is already the first deficiency.
As you said, the frustration should be minimized, but what would be the logical peak of your statement that “harder trash mobs means less loot and less fun”, or in other words “easier trash mobs means more loot and more fun”? Right… remove them altogether for “maximized fun”…
But can the removal of most of the games content be the solution? SHOULD it be ALLOWED TO BE the solution?
That’s why I’d absolutely love to see “trash mobs” elevated in both challenge and reward for dealing with them, giving a larger portion of the game a meaning.
Crafting items, as a reasonable explanation of equipment improvement, and MIs are imho a good first step doing it. That a lot of the needed blueprints are boss drops sadly undermines a good chunk of it already.
What you seem to be asking is tantamount to turning trash mobs in Heroes, which you can probably do with mods or something. I personally wouldn’t like to see that but that’s what mods are for in a single player game.
Though I’ve nver had issues with trash mobs slowing me down. Some builds are slower than others but most can kill a huge group of mobs in 1 spell/proc usually. My Elemental Deceiver doesn;t even have to cast anything I literally run through mobs and they die from Auras/procs. Again, that’s my personal experience.
I prefer the trash mobs are now with maybe some slight tweaking. For instance the undead mobs, i like it when there is a Skeleton Priest around healing the other mobs. Or a Skeleton Warlock which puts a sigil beneath you. And than the Skeleton Archer slowing you down and hitting you from far away. Prioritizing which mobs to take out first to make the fight less difficult, and sometimes you need to fight your way to that particular mobs.
It’s also a matter of what kind of build you have. Some can facetank almost everything and others kill things before it even gets close. I image it would be a pain to balance if mobs get stronger.
I personally have more a problem with the difficulty-curve than trash being trashy, just if that was a bit unclear.
Usually I cruise through the levels, half asleep, HP bar not moving the slightest, when a big hit wakes me up and I go “WHOA what was that?!”
Buffing trash would just be one way of smoothing that out while also making general combat a bit spicier. But there are probably other ways. And each possible solution brings with it its own set of problems. Maybe it is best to not touch anything.
Personally I think trash mobs are right as they are, they aren’t called “Trash” for nothing. I think that as a “hero” wading through hordes of basic mobs, slaying everything in sight, followed by a fight with the more powerful hero/boss mobs is basically how it should be.
Look at, just for example, Conan the barbarian. He wades through the trash mobs to reach the main “baddy” and I feel it’s the same here, or should be.
Look at it as the trash mobs doing their job of lulling you into a false sense of security so the stronger mobs get a better chance to surprise you
Edit… or Working As Intended as the saying goes.
I do get that. happens to me all the time too xD especially when I play my pet build :P.
I do believe they tried moving in a slightly more challenging direction with AoM. If you compare most of the Vanilla packs with the AoM packs. AoM packs have more Yellows with more special abilities, and to be honest, unless your playing a pet build you feel that difference.
Unfortunately, If my understanding of pack selection is correct, it would be allot of work to redo the Vanilla pack types. But adding a more consistent healer or AoE damage dealer wouldn’t be bad. But IMO AoM packs are just where they need to be.