This prefix while not being as popular for Physical damage became a staple for Pierce melee builds. Tyrant’s Dermapteran Slicer elevates any build melee and removes the need to press an extra cast button with low casting speed (like Horn or War Cry).
Problem is that this damage reduction on hit mechanic is easily available to some damage types (Physical, Chaos with its of Abyss), scarcely available to others (like Pierce, farming Tyrant’s Derma is pita) and not available to others at all (Fire or Lightning melees have to rely on puny Attuned Lodestones and Kymon’s jewelry augments). Cold damage stands out as cold melees can get it from Yugol devotion or Alkamos rings.
Recent change that is adding damage reduction to Blades of Wrath is welcome (although we don’t know what’s the value there, I imagine 10-12%) but it’s not a reliable source for Pierce melee builds (procs on crit and proccers on such builds are scarce).
I suggest adding this damage reduction value to medals, rings and amulets, maybe on a certain prefix, maybe to certain legendary pieces and including Tyrant’s into biased affixes pool for Pierce (while probably reducing its flat values).
Because 25% DR on a War Cry is a 12 skill points investment plus an additional button that is a cast that interrupts your auto-attack. And on Pierce Soldiers it doesn’t even cover you fully as downtime is longer than DR’s uptime.
15% dr on hit means as soon as you are flying into a pack with your rune and/or proccing your multitarget wps everyone is instantly debuffed and you don’t have to cast anything with 140% casting speed. For ranged characters having Tyrant’s or of Abyss and multitarget pass thru wps means even bigger coverage.
But that would a completely different problem tho that deserves its own topic maybe. Because there are plenty of melee archetypes that don’t have Soldier and still need dr.
I played some melee Shamans recently and often used Primal Bond instead of Stromcaller’s Pact… Even though it was lightning or cold… Some classes don’t have enough DR or DA but I am not sure that some DR on affixes is enough or good solution to that.
Maybe it’s a good thing that not everything is available to every build? Think of it as a build restriction that you have to build around.
You say that Tyrants is a prefix that is really good on Pierce Blademasters/Infiltrators. OK, but if you put the DR somewhere else, then that somewhere else gets added to the cookie-cutter formula and a new prefix becomes the default and you haven’t solved anything, you just moved a few things around.
Sounds to me like it is available to everyone for the cost of a weapon prefix or a ring or medal or amulet component or a Devotion, which admittedly is basically not an option unless you’re going cold or poison. It’s also available to any build that has a Soldier, Inquisitor, Demolitionist or Necromancer, as well as Pet Occultists and EoR Oathkeepers, and there’s probably other sources I’ve missed here.
That’s quite a lot of availability. I might even say it’s too easily available. Masteries should do things differently, otherwise we end up with everything being the same (or at least more samey).
what?
did you just totally miss the point of that part?
there is no dmg loss for WD phys or chaos
there is no build loss
DR being “available” in Soldier, Inquis etc etc does not mean it’s equal or that the cost isn’t too big for many
a/every Elementalist/Cabalist/Commando etc etc can’t just slap on 13 skill points and a skill use to get DR, that a Chaos AA gets for “free” on Abyss - it’s not comparable
and trying to make it appear like “x exist in the game there for it’s available there for it’s equally available when present to a build” is…
Lee literally directly pointed this out re War Cry and pierce blademasters earlier; it goes for other builds too.
Something “existing” in the game doesn’t mean it’s practically available; because the cost is simply too great for XY build even if not for Z build, or that the cost disparity causes an imbalance in how/when/where to obtain it or utilize it, and it’s that disparity being addressed
and some builds, believe it or not, suffers more from that disparity, (which is more impactful these days/current balancing),
every mastery has RR, (yes i’m counting OFF) “does all masteries feel the same now?”
unsure if it needs to be spelled out at this point, but debuff or effect overlap isn’t what makes things samey; it’s how it’s applied/used
if every DR or RR came on WoP/Omen skill, yes then it would make it feel and be samey
*i don’t think it’s a good idea to slap it on medal, Tyrant/abyss is fine imo, but dang, that take was something else
again, it’s not a mastery issue, it’s a build balancing issue - you keep missing the plot,
and it has significant build/gameplay impact in the current iteration of the game, like it or not DR and the way it’s available matters
however, what you said, the way you said, the way you attributed things to the game and balancing was monumentally derp
that’s the point i’m making/the part we’re “disagreeing” on
you said something very, silly, and i’m jumping on that specific part, because it doesnt’ belong (imo), also even if Tyrant/DR doesnt’ belong on medal affix (imo)
I honestly don’t think anything I said was even close to derp. I have no idea what it is you think I said that was silly.
I don’t see the current situation as a problem. Different builds have different levels of access and different costs to access different amounts of a stat.
to light another strawman since you like those
Should aether/1 specific dmg archetype builds have a huge disparity build cost obtaining regular resists? would that be a problem in need of fixing?
Should acid builds have issues covering certain stats, that every other archetype has no trouble covering? - would that be a problem in need of fixing?
Should X (normal/non meme) dmg type build struggle to cover lesser important stats like conversion - would that be a problem in need of fixing
Now, you might technically, for some absurd reason genuinely feel “no” to all 3 (which would be weird on the first point atleast “since it’s a base stat”), or feel like ofc base resist shouldnt’ be monumentally harder to cover for 1 specific dmg type, but point 2 and 3 are fine/fine to other or varying degree.
And then i’d address 2 things, DR, in the current version of the game, for many builds, can be almost on the same level of defensive importance as regular resist. It’s especially important for the ones lacking it on the other end of the scale/no Maiven/Bulwark/Possession. and, pt 1 2 3 has literally been addressed over the years because they got deemed significant enough by the community to raise, and for Z accept/implement.
Like it or not, with the dmg increases we’ve had, and with sunder effect, despite DR not reducing enemy debuffs scaling anymore, DR is basically more important than ever in terms of regular build defence, ie the mention of it basically being on par with your core resist. Because of that it causes a potentially rather large build disparity, based on that singular defence stat/metric.
What i personally don’t think it warrants, or rather my perception of the request however is that it’s not truly founded in that build disparity, which to no offence to Lee is simply because it’s him making the request in this way, which applies to his builds/his quality of builds, where imo the disparity is “lesser” than ex on my monkey builds.
Having 15% DR “default” on Medal would be a boon to many, but i think it would be too big a boon to too many, to build tiers that possibly dont’ “really” need it, from already being super strong, and becomes a matter of minor improving already great builds/“chasing seconds” - which isn’t necessary/just the usual inch by inch powercreep, and the strong gets stronger
I could ofc be wrong in that perception and it is a personal bias i have from playing ex top 20 builds/Lee tier builds and feeling like they dont’ need buffs, but them getting buffs/buff requests anyway sometimes - which makes me lump this sentiment in with that
I think builds that need it should get it, Tyrant is definitely well worthy of being pierce biased too on the affix roll - this is a fitting fix even if it wont fix all.
but 15% DR medal affix is just too easy/simple/universal. We’re almost in the territory of just nuke DR from the game and lower enemy dmg by, idono/the multiplicative value of 15DR with 80 res (brain fart cant count atm)
so instead of that, i’d just prefer we do a specific build by build basis where it’s significant, and look where to add or bump DR if necessary and possible. Surgical approach.
but your dismissal of the issue, just disagreeing or not, then comes of as you not getting how significant DR can be/that’s it’s borderline a base/core defence like resist at this point. Which makes the offhand dismissal you do/the way you dismiss it seem unfitting.
Depends on what counts as huge. It also depends what advantages said build has in exchange. This however, is not a thing that is happening, same for your other examples. No build in the game cannot get DR, and it is available to literally every build ever made for the cost of a weapon prefix or jewellery augment. The fact that you might be missing out on 100% increased damage in exchange seems like a small price to pay considering you seem to think that…
It isn’t. It’s not even close. Assuming no other source of +max resistances, every 5% DR is equivalent to +1% max resists. Good certainly, but hardly as powerful as you make it out to be.
Not really. There are still masteries that have huge advantages that no others can match. Blood of Dreeg means any build with Occultist can basically ignore P&A resistances on their gear. Where is the outcry against this? If everyone must have equal access to such strong buffs, then why doesn’t every mastery get something the same? Where are the threads asking for Necromancer et al to get access to 20% damage absorption buffs?
It’s simply that I flat out disagree with you. How many builds just don’t have it as a stat and still work just fine? I think you’ll find it’s a large portion of them. There needs to be decisions to be made, otherwise your game is boring. If you don’t like the price of entry to DR, that’s a choice that you are free to make.
no it doesnt’, 80 res (+x overcap) was/is the expectations and norm, you literally can’t argue that as it’s the baseline for everything and core interaction/mechanic of the game, which the devs even ensured
because it’s been fixed over years, it was happening, hence why resists got added, swapped or increased
which jewellery augment adds DR?
no, it’s literally not, even if we ignore the build cost/dmg loss, not every build can fit it in on weapon prefix
because A, it requires WD attacks to work, B, not every build can just slap on a green weapon willynilly, you know this, it’s again a silly dismissal/invalid counter argument…
and how easy do builds get these?, and how impactful is it when they do get it?
yes, literally, and you directly illustrate it invoking max res increase; it’s effectively a max res increase which not all builds get either - yet is impactful, and so much so some chase it extra
yes, really
someone having an advantage does not equal a fundamental disadvantage
Occultist having Blood of Dreeg has absolute 0 relation to acid builds struggling more on HP and CC res etc, not just because BoD doesnt’ fix that issue, but because not all acid builds are Occultist
Again, missing the plot conflating basically totally unrelated things, it’s not helping your point…
not what’s being said, nor is it the same
Necro having 30% DR, means it doesn’t “need” Maiven the same as arcanist; it does however mean spellbinder gets stronger for it, thus spellbinder oriented items might not get the same degree of buffs like a Shieldbreaker etc…
that’s going to be a variable and subjective definition, heck it’s why Lee is even making the request as i perceive and why i perceive the fix as unfitting.
Can you make a tanky, sturdy build, that doesn’t suffer the same from not having DR? totally; it has so much extra defence making up for it
Can all builds get that same defence without gimping the build? no, because not all builds are equal or obtain stats/defences to the same degree, HP, DA, Armour, Phys res etc. Aaaand that’s where the disparity then compounds.
Avenger Archon vs Avenger Warder, one is more tanky than the other, more sturdy, at 0 build cost there is an inherent native difference, and this is fine, one trades a bit of dmg for a bit of chonk. Clairvoyant Warlock vs Clairvoyant binder, not really close in terms of Avenger comparison binder version is just natively stronger on all fronts, and we’re also already in build cost sacrifice territory to begin to even tip the weights left or right. Etc for pierce melee AA, where Tyrant makes a difference, even if it’s “only” the same 3% max res, which equates to 16% less dmg taken…
^this can be the difference between 1shot or survival on plenty builds.
If you disagree, then you inherently build different, “overly defensive”/extra tanky, but is then a full build cost you deliberately choose, which others shouldn’t “suffer” from, let alone when so many don’t have to
i just don’t want SR90(ptr36) to be more and more the norm, slapping DR on medal like this is another small step in that direction, which i don’t think is necessary; but it doesn’t mean DR isn’t important/significant, nor that the disparity among some builds, like pierce melee isn’t valid
People that “only” build Tree Ishtak LoE doesnt’ invalidate builds that go Torch, Korvaak, etc. Just builds that sacrifice half their dmg to get 50k hp doesnt’ get to invalidate “meta” builds that get more dmg and less than half the HP
It’s a disparity among “equal” builds, in terms of approach/style/support etc, and you can’t really “disagree” on that disparity being there,
and even if you feel like disagreeing on the impact of it, you’d just be “objectively” wrong, again…
been suggested before, increase DR portion to 7.5 secs, that way phys bois still have to take CDR items to get the full RR benefit
*was also highlighted after got buffed, which made the base difference seem all the more stranger