Update-Gruldir's damage is probably bugged, inconsistent

Last edit, TLDR: Gruldir occasionally, randomly does obscene damage (more than Voldrak/Steward with a double phys rolled weapon, more than The Dread’s attacks on ascendant mode) for a reason I can’t figure out.

It’s not his MI weapon rolls, most of the time I facetank him with full chaos rolls, and when he does the crazy damage the rolls weren’t anything special. It’s not random RR reduction rolls, I’m overcapped and he’s never dropped an “abyss” affix weapon for me with the %total RR. But once in a while his damage is just 10x what it normally is and his auto attacks do as much or more damage as Callagadra does. There’s just some thing sporadically bugged about his damage. I don’t think he needs another nerf, he’s not a threat when he’s not bugged, and easily facetankable. But rarely and randomly he turns into a celestial for some reason.

edit- Just hit 100, went into ascedant mode. Same exact build, did a bunch of bosses, 2 nemesis, tempest totems with 2 bosses - no deaths, facetanked most of it. Definitely not my imagination with Gruldir.

4k+ hour player, ultimate hardcore done many times, all celestials, etc etc.

Even after supposed nerfs, Gruldir on ultimate in particular is noticably overtuned compared to everything else in the game. I face tanked everything on this run, including sunders, not even remotely coming close to dying on every other enemy in the campaign (except ult Voldrak) with this char I am currently leveling. Over about 6 attempts, I couldn’t stand still for 2 seconds without getting instantly deleted through:

Level 97, 2800 OA, 2400 DA, 14k health + 4100 from menhirus potion mod, 2.3k armor 84% applied, 10 phys res + 25% less damage from maven’s sphere, 10% damage reduction on enemies, 83% chaos res 25% overcapped, all other overcapped res’s, impaired aim, Giants blood, turtle devo, crab devo, chariot devo, max levels, big weapon damage lifesteal and 2k health regen, and he still one shots through all of that. 9981 max hit I took from him, and he dual wields, swings very fast, double leaps, and has two immortal adds that carpet bomb the area. It’s not the shotgun nuke, his basic auto attacks chunked ~5-7k per swing. He doesn’t even have a DA/RR shred. I don’t think you reasonably expect an average player’s leveling character (or even 50% endgame geared) to have more defensive layers than this, and it feels like overkill against everything but him. He did have two double chaos rolled weapons and a chaos helm, but that’s going to be a pretty standard loadout in difficulties above normal mode.

I’m all for the tuned up challenges in ascendant mode that you elect and can be geared for. Also fine with telegraphed physical attacks like the big troll swings or steward’s attacks doing massive damage. But Gruldir’s auto attacks and leap are almost unavoidable as he leg humps you and hits very nearly as hard as the obvious telegraphed “this will one shot you” attacks, which I still facetanked every single other one through ultimate (testing the defensive layers) except Voldrak who had a triple rare with two phys rolls.

All that to say, Gruldir is a single, huge outlier in damage and feels very broken relative to everything else in the campaign. Also has a massive hp bar so -103% RR, 100% hit 15% crit and 250k sheet dps isn’t remotely close to being able to nuke him down, so that isn’t a counter. Recommend a tuning pass on him, a 30-50% damage nerf and he would still hit hard.

Edit to be clear: it isn’t about being able to facetank him. With {campaign relative} very good defences, his damage inconsistently, dramatically out scales any reasonable expectation of defence for a random boss in campaign.

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are you trying to facetank Gruldir through the dogs, or doing the turret thing? :thinking:

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Not standing in anything, stutter stepping to avoid everything except auto attacks, cooldown abilities, and the leaps. I was fairly clear I am only talking about his unavoidable attacks.

ye, i’m asking because i genuinely don’t get it/“there must be something going on to make sense”, like, Gruldir been nerfed multiple times now, and i don’t share that experience/outcome on any of the char’s i’ve levelled or played, so for me it’s just “weird” to keep seeing people take issue with the fight still, and request further nerfs :sweat_smile:

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I tested him on Ascendant quite a lot. I haven’t done it extensively after the recent tuning passes, but before them he was just really inconsistent, depending on what weapons he was using. Whenever it was something with resist reduction (f.e. Plaguebearer’s) he was an absolute psycho. Of course it’s also dependent on the build. With an SS or DB nuke build I killed him so quickly, he couldn’t do anything.

It could be a bug that applied his MI bonus multiple times, a fat fingered digit in his tuning, or any iteration of wonkiness that sometimes happens. If many players still bring it up, there is something inconsistently, dramatically scaling his damage would be my guess.

His damage numbers look normal in grim tools. But something is off about how much damage he deals with unavoidable attacks. I made a pretty tanky setup (by campaign standards) and he can hit harder than the one shot melee bruiser enemies, except he can’t be kited or easily avoided the way they can. And he’s the single enemy (well rolled voldrak excluded) that my setup not only couldn’t face tank, but couldn’t live through literally 2 seconds of only auto attacks.

I’ve played the game a long time and he feels wildly different than every other enemy, like his damage is more exponential than everything else when he has well rolled MIs.

Again, talking about campaign at higher levels on ultimate with level appropriate, but SSF fresh start gear.

Yeah, something feels a bit off with his scaling in particular. But I’m talking about campaign particularly. I’m fine with him being a terror in endgame, when you can scale beyond him.

But he can be a brick wall for the 99% of players who aren’t like me and don’t have a shameful number of hours and hardcore characters, in just a wonky tuning “I’m trying to facetank celestials with low phys mitigation” kind of way, that’s why I posted. Not “oh don’t stand in the floor degen or overhead slam, I learned something from dying” kind of way.

Can players just avoid him? Sure, and I would in hardcore. But leaving an extreme outlier enemy in campaign isn’t great design imo.

I’m not so sure actually. It might be possible, depending on where he spawns exactly but you kinda have to engage with him for the quest that sends you into the void portal?

Yeah, you’re right, not totally avoid. Don’t have to kill, you could run drag him away, then activate the alter thing (unless the it’s locked until killing him, I dunno never tried). But that would open you to being one shot.

Gotta second this.
On my recent chars he was the only one being able to kill me in a campaign (Ult/Ascended) walkthrough. So if he stands out to me - someone who has finished dozens of characters and knows the workings of survival mechanisms in and out, how must that encounter feel to someone new to the game?

Without exagerrating, facetanking GravaThul on a non-finished leveling character feels easier by an order of magnitudes.

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Personally I think he’s only difficult if you get double lept on by him if you run or if you try to tank his wolf turrets damage or if he wields crazy weapons. Like all Humans, that chance to have crazy weapons and armor is a nice thing to see. If he has some high damage affixes then he kind of feels like the old school Fabius with Notched Bone…

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Didn’t say he’s difficult, I’m saying there is something buggy and inconsistent about his damage scaling. More so than any other human enemy, even Fabius and Maiden back in the day, and even bruisers like Voldrak or Steward.

I went from getting instantly killed by exclusively his auto attacks in regular ultimate to facetanking nemesis and two tempest totem bosses in ascendant mode with no issues on the exact same build, same day. I went and facetanked Voldrak’s attacks in ascendant with two phys rolls on his weapon just to check, didn’t even come close to dying. Gruldir has something fishy going on with his damage.

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Avan are you sure it’s his AA? if phys dmg rolls related ( i see you moved it to bug report)

this seems like something that could bug out Unpredictable on-death monster one-shots, while also scale phys dmg (his AA doesn’t seem like it should have high scalability 556-715 base Phys+1k cunning/100% wd cap going by GT atleast) :thinking:

I may have died once to the shotgun, but when I was testing his damage I would wait until the barrage went off and the dogs were spraying elsewhere to engage. I tried about 6 times and watched his attack animations. It was only AA’s that were doing 7k per swing and killing me in less than 2 seconds. It may have been all his damage that was supercharged, but I was testing if his weakest attacks were doing crazy damage, and they were. Like you said, his AA shouldn’t be able to scale that high based on the tooltip.

Point was, I don’t think the intent is for the auto attacks of a non bruiser enemy to hit harder than Voldrak, Steward, The Dread, and FoA Mogdrogen. I facetanked big attacks of each of them with the same build. Didn’t die to first two, and died after about 8 seconds pure facetank to dread and mog. But Gruldir killed me in less than 2 seconds each time I let him auto attack me.

I have killed Gruldir half a dozen times since and he hit like a wet noodle mostly despite having similar rolls on his MI weapons as when he was supercharged. All that is why it seems like a bug, coupled with groups of people reporting they think he either hits like a pool noodle or hits obscenely hard. Even allowing for the weapon rolls human enemies get, his scaling was outrageous randomly.

Given the link you gave showing a bug causing extreme burst damage with FoA enemies, I don’t think it’s crazy to think there is something buggy going on with Gruldir.

ye but that’s why i mentioned the nova, since it’s projectiles specifically causing the Coincident bug. But it should be either visible or audible then and “obvious” not basic aa related then :thinking: - mebe there’s a weird comma in Gruldir.dbr so if he spawns at lvl 107 instead of 106 he gets 1000% wd AA scaling instead of 100%wd aa :sweat_smile:

And that bug is described as going off when the enemy dies, which was not the case for me. I was at level 97 when he was supercharged, 100 when he turned into a pool noodle. No changes to my build tho. So maybe there’s a level related bug component :person_shrugging:

Apparently feedback on a possible bug goes in the feedback section :upside_down_face:

usually happens if it’s deemed not a bug :sweat_smile: