I agree with most of the sentiments on this thread but that set never really screams paladin at me. It’s a warlord/tactician set. If the conversion just becomes ele>pierce then it’ll be a strong tactician set on its own (damage-wise. Let’s not talk about the missing phys res here) and even on the current preview it’ll be playable but clunky.
I know zantai always says nothing is final until we get to play the patch but if we get those previews and everyone says the sets are cool (don’t get me wrong, the skills they boost are cool, there’s just some things lacking) then the chances that things are gonna change isn’t gonna be much. Look at Noctirn. The previews showed 25% conversion on the weapon and everyone bitched so it got changed to 50%. Now crate might step up and say the bitching wasn’t the reason the weapon got buffed but the fact is the bitching happened and the buff happened. Hoping the same will happen here too.
or maybe just not post entire item stat previews so there’s no bitching till the actual patch
i don’t get it?
people moaning about no phys res on new sets?
people complaining about their specific desires/build ideas not getting buffed in a specific way to run sub 4 cruci?
people derping out because what, quadruple influx of meme potential?
-when the most egregious thing is they haven’t announced an increased summon limit to cosmetic pets so you can have all out while you dance on the corpse of your enemies!
if you wanna moan about something, complaint about something important, derp out about that^
also, why don’t all existing sets ingame just get 15 free phys res? ez, everyone happy, no whiners for patch 1.2.0, right?
Can we buff hysteria pet and savage pet to make pet builds without skeletons actually good around the time you can get those pets?
I play conjurer and when I can get hysteria and savage caster is still superior and not even worth going for. They die way to easy even when focusing on pets. I’ve leveled 5+ conjurer’s and never once was pets the better leveling option than caster at least not until elite maybe.
Also the pet from blightshard amulet is also awful. Having a ranged pet in conjurer that isn’t the bird would be cool but that pet is flat out bad.
Completely unrelated to anything anyone’s talking about but
I mean, that ship has sailed long ago to a degree. We used to post patch notes ahead of patch day, but the response, a sampling of which we got yesterday, was so toxic and premature that we decided it was not good for the community to maintain the tradition.
The purpose of posting the set details with the dev update was to give everyone a preview of what sort of playstyles the new sets will support. Most forum-goers are capable of looking at that and be satisfied. Some hop on their armchair with a red pen, ready to give their unsolicited advice.
Numbers are utterly meaningless out of context. Maybe Dreeg’s Evil Eye base skill got buffs? What changes did the Tome of Atonement get? Maybe it gives 5000% damage to DEE in v1.1.9.0? In which case everyone can cry about how devs are nuts instead (although with some past buff suggestions, perhaps that would be right in line with expectations…). But nah, it’s better to write off a playstyle because it’s a meme right now.
How exactly is something supposed to stop being a meme without changes and/or additional gear support? If we relegate everything that’s not already meta to the dumpster, then everything will stay the same. How many more ways do you need to build AAR or Shadow Strike? I think we’ve got a veritable rainbow of those now.
I’d rather experiment with unusual options and give the community those things to experiment with than just do more of what already works. That’s not variety.
Not to mention that being shown a new set has literally zero bearing on what changes are made to existing items. Omg, Bleed set that can be used by a Paladin?! WHAT ABOUT CHANGES TO EXISTING PALADIN SETS, CARTE?
There’s over 300 bullet points in the log as of Today and the patch is at least a month away if not longer. You could probably blurt out a struggling archetype at random and chances are it’s affected in some way.
I don’t remember that specific example, but on the off-chance an item shipped in an underwhelming state…so what?
We could pump out hotfixes daily if we wanted to and address legitimate concerns. We’ve already made a habit of including balance changes in hotfixes specifically to address anything the community brings to our attention. Balancing doesn’t stop because content made it past playtesting. Playtesting lasts forever, by the entire community.
Anyone feeling like build variety is stagnating (a questionable verdict) need not look farther than the playstyles that aren’t doing sub-5 minute Crucibles and SR100’s. Play those, let us know where you struggled and what the build was. How many buffs have happened because the community asked for them (whether directly or indirectly)? Hundreds by now? The GrimSheet thread was a treasure trove of data, for example.
Conjurer isn’t speedy for sure. Not sub level 40 and also if you’re untwinked too.
They speed up once you get maxed conjure primal spirit, this is your main boss/hero pack killer and some aoe devotions on them like elemental storm.
Hysteria I wish was on your list too. I get it’s one you can buy but it’s still not good. He dies too easily. His aoe and damage is probably fine.
Blightshard needs most love though. He is always late to the party he’s super slow and his projectile speed is slow too. Could see it being a nice addition as a ranged pet but not as he is now. Thanks for the reply
Zantai you´re awesome. Tell the devs they´re awesome too. I´m eagerly awaiting the patch (and this thread is a very juicy treat as well) !! Its like my own little christmas present from Crate!!
I should have been more specific but my comment was more directed to what was shown in the related post. That I hope some information continues to get shared regardless of the “oracle” comments given without testing or seeing the patch notes.
I know. But right now it’s either “post detailed previews, get a lot of bitching and drama” or “don’t post detailed previews, no drama till patch”. It’s ultimately your choice and I do think you got used to the pre patch toxicity here already.
Totally agree. There is this talk floating in these places that the new sets are gonna be crap and while I might agree, every conventional playstyle has their own sets already. We don’t need another dark one. What I’m agreeing with when it comes to the bitching is really just that the sets feel incomplete, starting with the phys res. I know, numbers not yet final stuff and stuff. And I know you released stuff like Noctirn, but then you guys also released stuff like Voidsoul and Rotgheist, which existed for a few patches already and I’ve never seen anyone be satisfied with those two sets. Also, incoming “changes are coming for these two sets” but I’m talking about current patch as these two are currently in the game and they suck.
It’s fine to make sets that support unusual playstyles, and I love that you’re making them. I already love the concept of the vindictive flame one and the bleed paladin one (no matter how many people meme that bleed set). But sets such as these need more things to be playable compared to you usual cookie cutters, especially since these sets won’t have many complementary non set items that can fit since the sets support an unusual playstyle.
Honestly, what I’d love to see is a set that just screams PALADIIIIIN!!! Cause currently the only one that does that is Octavius (and even then it screams warlord more than paladin. The new set also screams tactician more than Paladin) and that’s probably the paladin aspect that needs the least amount of changes.
Anyway, honest suggestion. Please do change the conversion on the bleed set from Fire>Pierce to Elemental>Pierce. Just cap it off at two items instead of three. We don’t need another build that uses pack of treacherous means + bladetwister signet just because there’s no other way to convert that word of pain
Since the GM dropped, discussion around this has subsided a little and I’ve really had time to think about it again. I do want to talk about this and leave my 2 cents as there has been criticism on both sides over it.
Starting off, I’m gonna do my best to detail what I think is the core problem - physical resistance on sets is one of the stats that gets tossed around by a subset of players (I’m not pointing any fingers specifically) as a must-have stat whenever a set lacks it and the masteries a set supports don’t have convenient access to it (heck, some sets with easy access to it like Dreeg’s set/Deathmarked have a chunk).
Now I’m not exactly blaming those players either if high physical resistance is a requirement or want to really push difficult content like Celestials reliably or SR75+ and beyond reliably as examples even though both are areas of the game that weren’t initially made with the majority of all builds completing in mind - I can look past that for the purposes of this post and playing devil’s advocate.
The issue the side arguing takes with it is that it’s frankly just boring shoving the same stat of physical resistance on 60 or 70% of Legendary sets available. At that point you may as well just give the player a baseline of 10-15% physical resistance and make it scarcer on the current sets/items not that I expect this happen this far in to development, it’s part of the point I want to make - physical resistance is prevalent on so many items and sets nowadays because of it’s reliance that it’s value has sunk now that it’s expected that end game builds get it relatively easily instead of having to search out and build for it.
Instead, like Norzan pointed out, I’m a believer that it is always better to see more creative and alternative approaches to defense applied which I agree is a valid criticism here if some of the sets lack any form of defense at all. But for the love of Dreeg can we see some more shake-ups in that area like how Ember’s set gives ADCtH to Vindictive Flame? I’m excited to see what that’ll be like with some flat CDR and damage mods like 1-2 Ascendant Conduits.
I don’t disagree. What the sets really need is some form of defense, and phys res isn’t necessarily what it should be. It’s just the first thing that comes to mind, but I’m not convinced with the VF lifesteal alone. Lifesteal doesn’t stop 1shots, but it’s very welcome.
VF lifesteal is a bit unique in the sense that it’s passive lifesteal, which is extremely rare (Blood Knight mod to counter strike is the only other one I can think of). It works when you’re stunned and doesn’t require anything to be cast beforehand. It also incentivizes leveling VF, which is generally a skill that people don’t invest heavily in.
It remains to be seen if the set needs more defenses beyond this, but I’m absolutely in love with the VF concept so far.
In addition, I feel that some of this is on the player in the sense that it is a riddle that we should be solving (in terms of finding a way for enough phys res or defenses) in order to make it viable.
Now a bit of the ways back @mad_lee made a really good post involving Radaggans which I could totally see where he was coming from and it had the “science” to back up the change in terms of sustain. It was changed.
But here, in this situation, as I mentioned an “oracle” argument taken in a very tight vacuum of not knowing anything else other then the stats on 12 pieces of gear across 3 sets.
Now if the patch lands and people prove that their arguments in this thread or anywhere else regarding these sets is true…well I’ll shut my mouth and apologize.
But I really think the existing tools will keep you safe defensive wise but that will always come with the “symptom” of making compromises in personal build habits and not being able to push the boundaries of content that the individual player may want…which I might point out that may be moot since we don’t know what changes are occurring other then boss rooms (for SR at least).
Now the above sentiment of a set “screaming” Paladin…yeah I agree with this 100%. I do want a good paladin fire type set that doesn’t fell so piece meal. The other issue (personal) I also see with it is the amount of phys to fire conversion to judgment on all the pieces that end up over lapping.
Oh a much better perspective would be to look at this in the following way: if CR and SR didn’t exist and these dropped in MC, would anyone be defining it as “meme”? Likely but the measuring stick would be something else like lox, lok or something else which is much easier to build for then 5 min CR and 80+ SR. That’s what the past has shown at least.
Before the “Virtue is Paladin” people come here, while Virtue and Paladin does match theme-wise, gameplay-wise virtue does nothing with inquisitors and therefore it is much better with Sentinel or Shieldbreaker which doesn’t require you to skip Divine Mandate. The only real Paladin set right now is Octavius, and Paladin doesn’t really have much physical synergy.
very well put.