i agree that range builds should have some attentions, but not the new Cadence mod at 3 WB pieces. 1st, range builds should and always need to have lower damage than melee. You can atk from far away, or just stand inside Seal and shoot everywhere while melee builds need to facetank everytime and move a lot. 2nd, it should get buff from test results after convert physical change. Basically you should provide some evidences, videos, time clear Cru/ SR or something other than just ask for buff everything across the board (and as i remember a few Physical guns got buff already)
Ehhh, this is very situational, everything in this game likes to bum rush you so keeping distance as ranged is non-trivial. Seal can be used by any class and plenty of ranged builds that don’t use Inquisitor. It’s not the only variable, but speed/efficiency in farming is traditionally a factor in what gets played and what gets left on the shelf, so a blanket must be lower damage on a complete build leads to things like 1 person bothering to test ranged and the rest of folks ignoring it . I assume this also means all casting would need to be lower damage than melee because it can also kite, etc?
Either way, I was making a silly joke in the other thread about the warborn bonus going on 3 piece because it does ignore existing bonus design language. I’ll be retesting DD physical and elemental cadence this weekend, and try to test pierce or some other damage types as well and see how they are performing now.
i’m just saying about what the game has always been from start. all guns have lower damage than melees (both 1h or 2h). from the very begining. and the fact that caster should be lower damage than range/melee is wrong because caster hardly find something to sustain (low armor, low physical res, low ADCTH, and health regen only works with some specific sets/devotion routes). and only “cooldown casters” can find it easier to kite, not “spam caster”. other than that, my point stand still- range should has less damage than melee, cuz you can always shoot from distant, and for the record, trash mobs will die before they can touch you, and a lot of bosses are slow as hell to touch you. take moosie or gargabol for example. they are nightmare for melee (especially with low freeze res with Moosie), but are perfectly easy for range
Just because the game has always been like that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a design mistake, or that the game remained stagnant and didn’t evolve past these concepts.
As of now:
- dangerous enemies that will still somehow allow you to kite is more of an exception
- ranged builds are extremely vulnerable to being surrounded in melee compared to melee builds because melee builds typically have multi-target circular WPS and are able to lifesteal from everyone, ranged doesn’t really have this benefit and at best will have an explosion-like WPS e.g. Bursting Rounds. Being encircled is not some exotic scenario for ranged builds and has nothing to do with player being skilled or not. It’s just how the game is designed.
- therefore, what makes ranged different from melee is that ranged have some “alpha strike” - being able to shoot down enemies on approach, and how much alpha strike they can do depends on how fast are the enemies faced. But thing is, if that’s the paradigm then ranged builds actually should have MORE damage than melee builds, and pay for that with being more glassy.
It’s pretty interesting how that very model on how I think ranged builds should work correlates with how you think cooldown caster should function. But somehow you think cooldown caster’s damage output is well deserved because they have low armor, low phys res and low ADCTH, even though in practice armor is comparable (less than 2k is just w/e), phys res tends to be comparable as well, and they get enough sustain from procs and stuff because taking less damage is, surprise, means you need less sustain.
You’re cherry-picking an encounter in your opinion’s favour here, and isn’t even right about Moosi
Reaper? Kuba? Kaisan? Fabius? Iron Maiden?
Fighting Moose ranged is a good way to eat a tss to the face and die. Gargleballs is a good example of a good matchup for ranged as you can play keep away. Grava also becomes slightly more manageable. Counter examples being what dragon mentioned (although kuba can be stutter stepped as well unless the cdr mutator rolled and then you’re going to be in a blood pool regardless). Every damage type and play style generally has a range or good to awful matchups at the nemesis level, ranged isn’t unique here.
Ranged AA AoE is butt tier if you aren’t using fire strike. You need either that or passthrough to even take advantage of trash clear before the rush to lick your face, or a string aoe skill but then any damage type can have that. The shotgun skills tend to actually just be better single target damage when they are all stacked on a target vs single handedly removing trash, again except on passthrough where they can actually start to seriously thin the crowd before they get close. The flip side of this is now you still have a big dangerous target in your face, you deal less damage then melee, trash is gone so no easy leech source, and you have to face tank anyway.
Can take a look at my attempts at Ludrigan AA vindi if you want to see AoE in action. That actually has good single target ranged damage, but clearing bigger waves of mobs takes relatively forever despite storm totems and wind devils helping. So they all end up in your face anyway
Faction - Heart of Malmouth: added
18 Aether damage modifier for Panetti’s Replicating Missile
Faction - Mark of the Shadow Queen: increased Aether damage modifier for Panetti’s Replicating Missile to
70 Relic - Eye of the Storm: added 10% damage to Aetherials
Bloodbriar’s Thorn: replaced Physical damage modifier for Blitz with -1s Cooldown modifier and increased its % Crit damage modifier to
50%. Replaced Pierce damage modifier for Ring of Steel with -1s Cooldown modifier and increased its % Crit damage modifier to 50%.
Slathsarr’s Crest: increased % Weapon damage modifier for Panetti’s Replicating Missile to
Sharpshooter’s Duty Set: reduced Pierce damage bonus to 33 Increased % Activation Chance on the granted skill
Mythical Sharpshooter’s Coat: increased Offensive Ability to 50.
Sharpshooter’s Mark Set: reduced Pierce damage bonus to 18
The Unseeing Eye Set: removed % Crit damage bonus
The Unseeing Gaze Set: removed % Crit damage bonus
Mythical Unseeing Eye of the Blind Assassin: added 18% Aether Resist
Legendary Non-Set Items
Cindertouch: increased Lightning damage modifier for Eye of Reckoning to
Conduit of Night Whispers: increased Fire damage modifier for Blade Spirit to
Gildor’s Pulverizer: added +2 to Blade Spirit and added modifiers for Blade Spirit
Mythical Dreadchill Mark: increased % Weapon damage modifier for Necrotic Edge to 60%
Mythical Gaze of Khonsar: reduced Fire damage for pets to 8 and reduced Fire damage for pets on the skill proc
The Pummeler: and removed its % Pierce dealt as Physical modifier. .
Legendary Set Items
Invoker’s Elements Set: increased Fire damage modifier for Panetti’s Replicating Missile to
50 and its Lightning damage modifier to 40
Justicar Guard Set: increased Fire damage modifier
s for Blitz and Forcewave to 233 and 120, respectively
Krieg’s Grip: removed Health. Added
140 Aether damage modifier for Blitz.
Krieg’s Mask: fixed an issue with this item’s Physique requirements being lower than intended. .
Ludrigan’s Pride Set: added 100% of Pierce dealt as Lightning modifier for Chilling Rounds
and increased its % Weapon damage modifier to 30%
Ludrigan’s Hat: increased
Lightning damage modifier for Chilling Rounds to 28-74
Ludrigan’s Sidearm: increased
% Attack Speed to 18% and Lightning damage to 7-30 Added 10% Weapon damage modifier for Chilling Rounds
The Cyclone Set: increased % Weapon damage modifier for Eye of Reckoning to 8%
The Vileblade Pact Set: reduced Acid damage modifier for Amarasta’s Blade Burst to
[Class & Skills]
Too unmotivated to make a separate thread but the last change is obscure.
Why all the AS reductions on gloves? It’s not like the builds using them have any alternative and are OP.
Execution nerf, if it’s a 30% WD nerf across the ranks, is just bad. It’s a 50/50 single target NB skill with 22% chance to proc at 8/8. Basically a 10/50 WPS of Soldier becomes a stronger DW skill than the signature skill of a dedicated DW mastery. Wonderful.
Agree. The trade of DW (15-25s faster in Crucible) is they are very fragile, their HP bar often fluctuates so many times in combat, especially crowd or boss, and they are very unstable in SR. For example, my Dervish acid drop ~40k dps, went from 290k to 250k, now maybe ~235k. If you take their dmg output, at least slightly buff it tankiness.
I don’t understand the nerf to execution…
Maybe if base damage is decreased then scaling could get buff so one pointer will be weaker and invested skill will remain same or just slightly nerfed ?
Removed from changelog:
Relic - Eye of the Storm: added 10% damage to Aetherials
Well, this was a nice addition, helping primarily with Valdaran, as probably all lightning builds struggle with him.
I suggest returning it but probably in a bit smaller and more common value like 8%. Or, maybe, leave it as it is. Anyway, lightning got nothing in compensation still.
I also do not understand this AS nerf across the board. Just … why?
Lul, I’m probably the only one who has build around that here, so I took a bit of my time to see how it would be with modding tools in advance.
This is the build: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YNn1arbZ
Left - before change, right - after change, both in current test version, both with Lethal Assault up.
Average cold before change: ~76650
Average cold after change: ~88150
Cooldown before the change: 1.5 seconds
Cooldown after the change: 1.9 seconds
Calculated DPS before change: ~51100
Calculated DPS after change: ~46400
It’s a 9% nerf to build’s main damage skill. That’s not even mentioning that even if it was a tie a lower cooldown version would had been preferred because there are benefits in extra mobility, both gameplay and “feel” ones.
And that drop is for relatively modest investment in NJE and Nightfall, a bigger investment would had further largened the gap. E.g. if I had 22/12 NJE it would had been close to 14% damage nerf.
Honestly I don’t get it.
As far as I know Spectral Longswords were never the preferred option, it was all about Loxmeres. Loxmeres being daggers have higher %damage, do not require physical conversion, and what’s even more important they have +2 to both Nightfall and NJE rather than just +2 to SS. Meanwhile Loxmeres are getting a light tap with removal of 10% crit damage bonus?!
That’s not even mentioning that SS was a popular OP skill in patch 1.1.5.X-1.1.6.X, but as of now the last available Cruci data dates back to 126.96.36.199, which is a patch released a year ago.
The only possible reason I can see is to make it different from Loxmeres and more in line with Riftscourge Slicer. But as I said many times before it is the Riftscourge Slicer that is an outlier among the three. There are a dozen of builds with two Loxmeres, one build (yes, mine) with two Spectral Longswords and a whooping zero builds with two Riftscourge Slicers. I’ve only seen Riftscourge Slicer used as an offhand for Deathguard, and only because you can GDStash some bullshit 400-600% damage bonus on it due to it being a dagger.
The only reason I was using Spectral Longswords to begin with is because they are easier to get and safer to farm on HC. If this change goes live though I think I’d rather use Loxmeres instead.
So before it was the crusade against retal and AAR. Now it’s against Nightblade eh? Cool!
edit: the most annoying part is that %AS will get rerolled and I’ll have to look for high ones again, ugh…
And the Crusade against Canister still goes on, though the skill is far from being op.
Also: if changes to phys damage applied to retal, maybe time to remove some penalties like on Beronath? I heard of retal DE being now a 6-min-weak build.
Not saying about retal BWC etc.
Hm, well, seems like they try to balance regular CB as opposed to set CB, so that set versions would be more powerful I guess? Although there are also chaos and cold variations, but not sure if that -1 fragment affected them.
But Ulzuin set has no cd mod for CB. Odd enough, I think.
And Barrelsmiths are clunky af for caster.
Cold CB - well, I’ve never saw it working.
Mythical Vilescorn Bracers: reduced % Attack and % Cast Speeds to 10%
Why? Acid don’t really have other options other than green for attack speed gloves. The other options require Occultist to have 8% attack speed.
Mythical Dreadchill Grasp: reduced % Attack and % Cast Speeds to 10% and Cold damage to 11
I assume now the max roll will be 13% from previous 19%. Is it due to the glove have vitality to cold conversion? Regardless it gonna hurt PB casting speed.
Mythical Chilling Grip of Hagarrad: reduced % Attack Speed to 12%
A bit similar with above, looks like cold gloves that have a synergy with Bat are getting nerfed.
Ludrigan’s Pride Set: added 100% of Pierce dealt as Lightning modifier for Chilling Rounds and increased its % Weapon damage modifier to 30%
Ludrigan’s Pride Set: added 100% of Pierce dealt as Lightning modifier for Chilling Rounds
Ludrigan’s Hat: increased Lightning damage modifier for Chilling Rounds to 28-74
Ludrigan’s Hat: increased Electrocute damage modifier for Storm Totem to 100 / 3s
Ludrigan’s Sidearm: increased % Attack Speed to 18% and Lightning damage to 7-30. Added 10% Weapon damage modifier for Chilling Rounds.
Ludrigan’s Sidearm: increased Lightning damage to 7-30 and increased Electrocute damage modifier for Panetti’s Replicating Missile to 110 / 2s
Ludrigan loses its planned WPS support. About time to make it focus on its casting skill.
acid nerfs doesnt make much sense to me as there wasnt any acid AAs in almost a year.
Also don’t get the removal of damage mods to Veil of Shadow. Are aura builds OP or something? It was removed from Hagarrad gloves - that’s fair. Mark of Dark Dreams also had damage to VoS I believe? Or did it always had only +range? Anyway, whoever was using two Chillstrifes on, say, Mageslayer will be 3-4k VoS damage short. And it ain’t nothing.
I look forward to leaving the record points on the 190-210 floor of the Broken Realm as soon as possible. 185 can’t satisfy me at all. You can’t even hit ten floors without crashing in this game. Isn’t it possible for players to play above the 190th floor?