V1.2.1.6 Impact on Deep SR Clearing Discussion

[orwund]

Too bad. Becouse i can say it about ending crucible 170 gladiator either and i said (etc). I believe you are too good to understand.

[mad_lee]

You should try Gladiator 150-170 without buffs while pushing the timer - will give you a new perspective on how differently difficult game can be.

[orwund]

@mad_lee

You should try Gladiator 150-170 without buffs while pushing the timer - will give you a new perspective on how differently difficult game can be.

Well i used too, ofc. but speeding it up is not the definition of the game’s difficult. Like speedrunning Dark Souls or smth else.
And if we are talking about speedrunning crucible then it became easier also.

[mad_lee]

To me Dark Souls is playing super deep SR. There is no nuance to how you build your character. You just invest all chips into tankiness and play scared - slowly chipping away at fat one shotting monsters. Great if it’s your cup of tea, but I find this challenge as a builder boring.

@orwund

And if we are talking about speedrunning crucible then it became easier also.

Try making a build that consistently runs buffless Crucible Gladiator 150-170 in under 4:30 minutes and come back to me

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

@orwund

speeding it up is not the definition of the game’s difficult

game/patch notes literally being based around speed balancing tho (past and currently)

[tqFan]

@orwund

Well i used too, ofc. but speeding it up is not the definition of the game’s difficult.

You can define it however you want. Top 20 attempts to find builds with top Damage that also have good Survivability (for the most part any build can be tweaked to be either very tanky or damaging but not both at the same time). It tries to do it precisely. You cannot really do it without speedrunning some content (if you just measure how deep SR you can reach for example) / pushing the timer because then you cannot measure Damage well enough. Also if you play the game, measure bulids and even speedrun in a different way, which you probably do, then I think it’s normal if you have different impressions.

@orwund

Much of the presented builds require great skill and awareness to reach even half of their effectiveness.

This is again, to measure builds more precisely. If you push builds to the limits / get good at them, then you measure them better with each other.

---

Dunno, maybe it’s just about different goals:

• as much damage as possible while surviving (well) in some specific content (Top 20)
  vs
• as deep SR as possible while having decent damage (many other players)

[orwund]

@tqFan

You can define it however you want. Top 20 attempts to find builds with top Damage that also have good Survivability (for the most part any build can be tweaked to be either very tanky or damaging but not both at the same time). It tries to do it precisely. You cannot really do it without speedrunning some content (if you just measure how deep SR you can reach for example) / pushing the timer because then you cannot measure Damage well enough. Also if you play the game, measure bulids and even speedrun in a different way, which you probably do, then I think it’s normal if you have different impressions.

we didn’t talk about top20 builds, we argued about the game became softer and the definition of game difficulty. I tried to be objective

@orwund

but the deeper SR is the definition of game’s difficulty (weaker builds will end the game, etc)

@orwund

If it’s easier to me conquer SR40 for example then it’s easier for budget builds end campaign.

And all i heared in return are subjective thoughts and a point of view that contradicts itself. Nothing to discuss further.

[Norzan]

You have always been able to make tanky builds and go above SR 40 easily. That hasn’t changed.

But the thing is, and i’m making an assumption here, is that a lot of players want to kill stuff fast. Tanky builds don’t really provide any of that.

[tqFan]

@orwund

we didn’t talk about top20 builds, we argued about the game became softer and the definition of game difficulty. I tried to be objective

I just tried to explain you the game Lee’s playing and the context in which he may have found it more difficult for some builds.

@orwund

And all i heared in return are subjective thoughts

Yours are subjective as well. I for example never play SR 40 so how the game is there is irrelevant to me.

[orwund]

you can show how you kill crucible fast with 50% winrate on it, it’s not absolute measure also. i played some of the updated builds and them are not making it always (in my hands).

[orwund]

@tqFan

Yours are subjective as well. I for example never play SR 40 so how the game is there is irrelevant to me.

I didn’t hear why lee thinks it became harder anyway. Not any point.

[mad_lee]

@orwund

you can show how you kill crucible fast with 50% winrate on it

yeah, I make sure my stuff does it consistently tho.

@orwund

i played some of the updated builds and them are not making it always (in my hands).

Which one are those?

Also, on topic: tqFan explained my view well.

[orwund]

@mad_lee

Which one are those?

Now we ll switch to this? i played acid dervish and cold n&o sabo. i either played aegis spammable builds and no question at all to them.

[mad_lee]

I am not sure I have anything more to say on the previous topic I am afraid. I feel that game got a bit harder because I played more than a couple of dozen of different builds of all levels types, you feel it got easier because your super tanky builds feel even more tanky now. Both things can happen at ones.

@orwund

i played acid dervish and cold n&o sabo.

And failed to complete SR 30-31 quickly with either one of them? What was the problem? Not enough damage? Not enough tank? Too difficult to pilot?

[orwund]

@mad_lee

And failed to complete SR 30-31 quickly with either one of them? What was the problem? Not enough damage? Not enough tank? Too difficult to pilot?

i talked about crucible. I completely know nothing about speedfarming SRs never even interested at that.

[mad_lee]

@orwund

i talked about crucible.

Buffless/Bannerless? Melee builds are the hardest to pilot there, even the strongest ones. Would make sense that without experience you gonna be dying there. However if you run it how the game mod was designed to be played - with buffs, it should be easy.