Very long feedback

Hello.

  1. Default attack replacer skills
  • There are too few of them. Some classes that autoattacks badly, like inquisitor and nightblade, do not have one. Their options for the second class are very limited. It feels like they need a default attack replacer, even a crappy one, to provide better build variety

  • Default attacking in melee and melee gameplay overall are significantly complicated in the beginning. This is the punishing experience that made melee repulsive for me (explosions on death, heavy melee damage for enemies, heavy projectile damage for enemies that is not switched to melee if you’re in melee range, pools of very long DOTs, shortgunning players in melee - say hi to Mad Queen)

  1. Bleed immunity for many-many enemies and other immunities. I know it kind of makes sense. I know bleed damage can be brought to cosmological magnitudes. But if a new player sees that the first aether crystal formation is immune to bleeding (but not immune to poison or internal trauma), he will instinctively drop bleeding skills. The same goes for Arkovian undead. Please stop using logic while assigning immunities - go for balance.

  2. Elemental resistance is overly abundant. Feels like it’s values should be toned down on all equipment and abilities.

  3. Panetti’s Replicating missile. It is absolutely horrible in the beginning. It is inferior even to searing ember fireball+Iskandra’s elemental exchange. It hopelessly loses early game to Word of Power+Storm Box. Early levels of Panetti’s and Distortion have to be significantly buffed, once again, not to scare the players away.

  4. Word of power. This skill is overwhelmingly strong. It deals damage to the whole screen, procs well, allows you to move while dealing damage, reduces resistances and needs to be cast only once every 10+ seconds. Now compare it to something like Panetti’s or Dreeg’s evil eye in the early levels. The skill has to be brought in line all other skills that are easily accessible from the beginning - but nerfing is taking people’s fun away - we’d rather you buffed early levels of other skills.

  5. Olexra’s flash freeze and Blade trap. Their damage MUST work on bosses. Otherwise, these skills have very limited utility.

  6. Difficulty levels. There are too many of them. Two would be sufficient. I realize this is not something you can quickly think through and implement in the next hotfix but I guess I am not the first one to say this.

  7. %Weapon damage to spells. It seems like it’s a holy grail of every spellcaster to get mana and life leech from their spells. Spellcasters should not have this possibility at all since they get AOE and damage easier than attack builds, but pay the price of dependence on energy pool and regeneration. At least it seems so.

Resist reduction solves that
even bleed builds can level through arkovia

someone didn’t play much endgame

skills aren’t equal, and Occultist has pox, which is the same as WoP, except it keeps self spreading once cast
i don’t disagree panetti sucks, but at lvl 3 you get access to Callidor which is fine, and a few levels later AAR, one of the strongest skills in the game - you don’t have to level with panetti at all

this is by design, otherwise they would be absurdly strong - and there are endgame sets that enable their utility on bosses
and for leveling both are fine even as full pointed “support” skills since they will clear the screen of enemies that aren’t a purple boss

far from all spells get %WD, the ones that do probably need it to be functional/useful in the long run

yet attack builds are insanely strong because they too can get insanely high aoe dmg and single target dps - on top of more lifesteal than they need - usually with a skill cost that don’t even warrant mana leech


i don’t disagree with everything you said, but imo a lot of it seems to be from not diving too deep into the game yet, and also not have “all” considerations in mind (not your fault no one can)

i think i’ve read a mentione more than once that some skills are the way they are/allowed to ex be strong early game like wop, because they can be treated as “leveling skills”,
not all skills are equal so ofc this wont apply to all classes in the same “strength” factor - but every single mastery have 1 or 2 go to leveling skills for easy or efficient leveling.
Doesn’t mean they all remain that way, imo unmodified WoP and pox drops of mid game, sad things like panetti feel trash the entire way and somethings go from okay to stronger and stronger

Phantasmal blades/shadow strike leveling as Nightblade
Forcewave as Soldier
Blackwater Cocktail and canister as Demo
WoP Box for Inquis
Skeletons or Ravenous earth as Necromancer
Vire’s Might as Oathkeeper
OFF+fireblast/AAR as Arcanist
Primal Strike-Thunderous Strike or Briarthorn as Shaman
Pox/Sigils or Birb as Occultist

aside from that you have a bit of component that grants free early skills that can be strong for all classes so they can save up their points

2 Likes

They aren’t immune to it, they are highly resistant to it. All damage types have an handful of enemies that are highly resistant to a damage type. Bleed just happens to stumble upon theirs early on.

Given the amount of time i have ran into low fire, lightning or cold res on endgame setups, this would be an unnecessary nerf to something that happens on a case by case basis.

Some skills are just naturally better than others in the early game, that’s just the nature of the game. Sure, it sucks to find out that the skill you picked for your first character sucks for leveling, but the entire point of your first experience is to learn the ins and outs of the game.

Way too late for this, and you can skip to Ultimate with a token once you beat the three difficulties with a character.

3 Likes

And have the Forgotten Gods expansion.

1 Like

There are components, equipment items and sets that provide replacer skills outside of masteries:

Troll Rage.
Beronath’s Fury.
Fleshwarped Strikes.
Belgothian’s Strikes.
Runic Bolts.
etc.

Inquisitor and Nightblade lacking replacers may as well be by design as they boast 3/4 Weapon Pool Skills (WPS for short), some of which are exceedingly powerful like Execution. At a basic level, they are intended to be paired with masteries like Demolitionist that have a replacer but very few or no WPS skills.

There are ways of reducing enemy Bleed resistance and early through Devouring Swarm in Shaman and Curse of Frailty in Occultist. Rend is also not too far into devotion either and is a popular beeline for the AoE coverage it provides.

You also rarely if ever deal purely Bleed damage. Any Physical, Internal Trauma, Vitality, Pierce etc. damage helps with dealing with some of these damage resistant enemies in Normal/Veteran until you start picking up some of your resist reduction or more beefier Bleed sources.

Depends on the build. Elemental or Fire/Cold/Lightning ones? Sure, but what Acid/Poison build doesn’t get excess amounts of Acid/Poison resistance either for example, it’s a quirk a lot of builds have. Several other non-Elemental damage builds though, I often have to patch those back up with Spellscorched Platings, armour augments or affixes, don’t think only of yourself or your builds.

A lot of skills are like this early on - Devouring Swarm, Bloody Pox, Olexra’s Flash Freeze (besides Cold Ones, which Fireblast mops up, Devastation for Bosses etc.). You’re not really breaking new ground here, AoE debuff skills are just super good in Normal/Veteran and stay good for Elite with enough skill bonus/modifier support, they eventually can start to peter out without other skills to support them or give them some extra punch though.

Those skills like DEE or PRM however, start relatively low but get better as the game goes on as you gain more levels and enough skill points to pick up their skill nodes, enough energy to sustain casting them, casting speed for more frequent damage applications than say Word of Pain’s one tick per second etc…

I wouldn’t even say it takes that long to comfortably move into either DEE or PRM spam. In my experience levelling spam caster skills, I find Homestead or ~Level 30-35 is a good spot to move into a spam playstyle. AoE skills will still continue to be strong but if you really want to play PRM or DEE levelling then you can do.

Been suggested over the years with several long debates over it, they are aware of how players feel about both skills. Since nothing has changed I doubt they can decouple the damage application from the CC so easily or it would take more effort modifying the skill template or engine than they are willing to spend the time on versus other priorities.

Merits are the answer to this, look 'em up. All you have to do is complete Normal/Veteran, Elite and Ultimate once, then you can cut out as much as you’d like on subsequent characters at the risk of making the early game harder. They’re not about to cut out huge swathes of the game that they have balanced for years otherwise.

While I’ve been against some spells getting weapon damage or baked-in ADCtH, a lot of them have come about over time from community feedback/want/outcry rather than developer intent. It has been the only way for certain pure damage skills like AAR in the old days or more recently for Stun Jacks to be competitively viable at end game is for builds using them to have easily accessible life steal as characters playing them need the constant reliable health recovery and/or often have to put themselves in harm’s way to maximise their damage output - AAR being a channelling skill means you have to stand still and dedicate yourself to your position, Stun Jacks being a shotgun means you have to be point-blank for all of your projectiles to hit a single enemy as examples.

3 Likes

I got no problems with leveling DEE from the get-go (including Kyzogg) on Veteran personally. Just killed Krieg on Ultimate at 75.

PRM shouldn’t be a problem either if you rush maxing out all the nodes and get as much %damage from devotions as possible and conversion to either Aether or Elemental later and gear with skills points to Arcanist or to the skill. I cannot say for sure because I haven’t done it yet. But Elemental PRM seems to have easier to get %Elemental than Occultist %Acid.

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I imagine it’ll probably be similar or easier if DEE is fine. Before the last buff to DEE’s skill line, both it and PRM and it’s skill nodes had comparable amounts of direct damage. Arcanist also has a leg up on Occultist with Mental Alacrity to help with energy/energy usage and Devastation to help with Bosses so you can get away with using PRM largely for crowd clear.

Coincidentally, MA and Devastation are what I mainly shoot for after OFF (besides some points in Maiven’s Sphere and 1 in Mirror/Null) whenever I level with Greater Fireblast and it has worked really well in the past :stuck_out_tongue:

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