i have a build which get a max of 4252 OA (ranged dualwield commando) when it hits that OA due to proc’s I crit constantly even on nemeses
Interesting. Is it on vanilla or a mod? A player here named ETK (i think) said he tried 4000 OA but that you need to give up on a lot of survivability to reach that.
judicators have been nerfed so that is out the window vs Nemeses. You got me curious as i am also an OA junkie.
don’t use any mods, vanilla all the way
well it is a ranged dualwield commando build (focused on cadence) uses lifesteal to regain health back. using Havoc and deathdealers sidearm
Ha. Been wanting to make a build with those two guns.
I don’t use mods either
The conversation with that playar was around this thread.
i tried combinations with all offensive devotions , dedicated OA equippent and all i got was 3800 OA with procs ( in the good judicator days that is).
Edit: thanks didn’t see the sreenshot
detail on gear or?
yea I rather play a caster/ranged build than a blademaster/sword shield build. not really fond of melee builds to be honest
Dang, and you don’t even have Charriot for OA and it’s still so high. As far as equippment for this particular build you are playing it’s what I had inmind too (though I don’t have good fancy pants like yours). One excertion/question would be the medal. Wouldn’t the debuff from black star help more at this point? Badge has on death proc.
PS: i am a melee player at heart but I also do caster builds
Maybe this helps: http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47554
Imo OA is not near as powerful as you would assume. 2600OA is the sweet spot imo as it will give ~30% crit with reasonable effort. Attack speed and resist reduction is always priority number #1.
yea your right, with the OA threshold, but I like to see how high it can get etc.
I like to test builds and make weird ones :p:rolleyes:
well the gear I use is almost BiS farming/crafting for hours/days
I’ll see how far i can take my DW BM. I’ve avoided makeing one for very long because there are so many on the forum and so popular that it was annoying almost. At lvl 60 i’m sitting at 2200 OA so I think it’s all good for now.
Edit: Would be cool to see a video of him too. The extermination proc must be pretty badass
yea to many dw BM builds haha :rolleyes::rolleyes:
i like my raining hell build, so much fun
I haven’t tried davastation yet, only callidor and Ray/Conflagration. And from the gear you have on that build, I am missing Iskandra’s focusing prism. I really need that for a weird hybrid build I want to make but RNG defies me when it comes to amulet drops.
Edit: by the way great idea on Shard conversion. I’ve been thinking about that too for a long time. I just don’t have the time to do all the builds that pop in my head lol. I am starting characters all the time and cicling through them. i think this is the best way to do max damage with Shards, provided you have a good conversion on your warpfire. Mine is S%^t. 75% conversion
No it wont, there is no magic number afaik, my philosophy is to up it as high as I can but without losing to much from other stats.
I consider 3 k as a low end 
Most powerful build I made are all 3 k + OA.
Nice build I tried to rework my commando to something like that but didnt like it, I was suffering from serious lack of AOE. Didn’t had warborn set though.
One question, why kraken, I thought that is working only with 2h weapons?
I agree on resist reduction thing but not sure about atc speed, specially when atc speed is close to 200.
In your calculations you didn’t include crit dmg multiplayer boast from having high OA. And 2,6 OA is to low for chars that are rallying heavily on crits.
Actually the graphs goes to 3100 and it is clear that at 60% crit damage an OA increase from 2350 to 3100 gives 10% more DPS. However if you add 45% crit damage you get the same DPS at 2350.
My calculation are all basic auto attacks, hence if you use Fire strike, savagery etc you get the same scaling just with other values. Of course stuff like crit based procs are not included. My calcs represent what you get for DPS on your character sheet.
To back my calcs I should add that my dual wield elementalist has 110% crit damage and 2400 OA. Dummy kill time is 42sec.
Just to get an idea. If I drop 75% crit damage (shaman) but add 33% resist reduction (occultist) I get the same kill speed on dummy.
It is all in the two graphs!
With 150% crit damage, 3100 OA and 0% extra Attack speed you get the same DPS as with 0% crit damage, 2100 OA and 60% extra attack speed from equip. Calculation are for havoc dual wield but scaling and numbers are same for melee swords.
Or even simpler: Via attack speed you can roughly increase your DPS by 100% (double your dps) while with OA and crit damage -if pushed to the limits- you only get an increase of ~60%. As a result you should never consider putting ANY effort into increasing OA unless your attack speed is capped at 200%.
And no attack speed has no dimishing returns. It increases DPS in linear fashion all the way to the cap of 200%.
Calcs are against nemesis with around 1400 DA.
I don’t think that I miss something.
It would be ice if you can make the test. If you are not capped at 200% attack speed, try to get to it by getting rid of OA and crit damage%. I am pretty sure that your dummy kill time will go up.
If you are at 200% attack speed then you should try to get some % crit damage as 10% crit damage is worth ~170OA (hence it depends on what is easier to get. Ultimate level Stormcaller pact (75% crit) is worth ~1200 OA.
I should add that extra damage% acts the same as attack speed. If you double i.e. your extra lightning damage percentage you double your DPS.
yea my bad, it shouldnt be on that build, had to be revenant up to the 6% atk speed, updated the grimcalc 
You are missing the point, I understand what you are talking about but you don’t understand me.
a). Diminishing returns from atc sped: going from 100% atc speed to 105% is 5% increase in base dps (base is calculated on 100% atc speed), how much increase do you get from going from 195% to 200% (Base is calculated on 195%)? Do you get my point now Its linear if you consider base to be always 100%, but as you up your atc speed base changes.
b). About OA:
- You didnt included in your calculations your chance to miss if you have low OA. What is worth upping atc speed or dmg if you miss?
2.Your crit multiplier increases with increase of OA. Its a hidden multiplier that does not show on your sheet. You are not considering that in your
calculations.
Edit: c) Do you consider even crit chance in your calculation?
You got me confused there, had to test it to be sure
Who knows what gimmicky things you praetorians know about game 
regarding a) yes of course that is correct. But scaling is still super strong all the way to the cap!
b) 1) I did include chance to miss of course. I actually did a real monte carlo simulation with the exact mechanics including enemy DA. After that I reverse engineered it into an excel equation to make the graphs. Hit chance, crit chance, crit multis are based on a look-up table. It’s all in the charts ;-).
2)I did! Hidden multi goes up to a max 1.5 (If i recall it right) by increasing OA. with 150% crit from gear and high OA you can reach a max crit multi of 3. Tested it and it looks funny on screen :-). There is no cap to how high the final crit multi goes. However crit multi based on OA is capped at 1.5 as mentioned before. And you don’t need much OA to get rid of the miss chance btw ;-).
Again my calculations are in depth and likely correct. It’s just simple math, actually! My attack speed quation is also likey to be correct as I adopted the idea of different base values depending on weapon type from titan quest. People were confused in the past as some said base is 92% and other said it is 100%. However in reality it is like this:
dual fists: 100%
dual melee: 100%
one hand melee: 100%
2-Handers: 92%
one hand gun: 92%
dual wield guns:87%
That means you can reach 4 attacks per second with all dual wielding combos and 2 with all single hand and 2-Handers. It is hardest to reach that with dual wield guns due to the low base value.
The charts might look simple but they contain it all.
So your sheet with equipping extra attc sped contains increase in dps from increase of hidden crit dmg multiplayer from increasing OA and increase in crit chance from increasing OA, right, (hell of a increases in this sentence :D)?
Of course!
Here two more graphs:
Here it shows what OA+crit can do for you if you are near one of the given combinations of attack speed and crit damage.
Here you can see that 13% attack speed from gear is worth more than 33% crit damage independent of OA. And it is worth much more at lower OAs of course. The Blue line is just OA with base attack speed and 0 extra crit chance, it is essentially a lvl 1 toon. The reason why the curve is bumpy lies in the threshold mechanics of how crit/hit etc work.
At level 1, 13% extra attack speed from gear/devotions would give the same DPS increase as +2500 OA!
I am not sure if the weapon damage value from character sheet includes crit chance. If not than you can give me that value and I can calculate your sheet dps for auto attacks for given set of weapons, attack speed, OA and crit damage. Then you would just need to put auto attack on LMB and check the DPS value on your character sheet. I never tested it but that would be interesting. But it is necessary to know what enemy DA value is used in the sheet DPS calculation. I used 1350 in my calcs so it is basically what nemesis have on ultimate.