Weaker Relics 2.0

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

Not quite a repost, made some changes to old suggestions. Didn’t want to bump old threads so decided to make a new thread

1. Bane -

[spoiler]Pros-
-Flat OA

Cons-
-Proc has a ridiculously high CD
-Has flat Fire damage but has an elemental theme

Proposed Changes-
-Change Fire Damage to flat Elemental Damage (MOAR ELEMENTAL LOVE)
-Reduce CD on proc to 0.8 to 1 second [/spoiler]

2. Nemesis -

[spoiler]Pros-
-Racial Damage to our Notched Bone Brothers:)
-Total Speed
-Flat Cunning
-Flat Cold Damage

Cons-
-Granted Skill is very underwhelming

Proposed Changes-
-Nemesis Pet should apply stackable -10% Cold/Pierce RR with its attacks
[/spoiler]

3. Annihilation -

[spoiler]Pros-
-Granted Skill isn’t half bad
-Spirit and Cunning Bonuses
-Flat Fire Damage bonus

Cons-
-Falls short when being compared to Korvaak’s Deception and Ulzuin’s Pyroclasm

Proposed Changes-

  • 6-7% total speed making it useful for auto-attackers or % weapon damage casters
    -8-10% Reduced Energy Cost[/spoiler]

5. Vengeance -

[spoiler]Pros-
-Stat wise the relic can give you a boner. Solid in defenses, no complaints

Cons-
-Skill is very, very bad and has zero practical use

Proposed Changes-
-Change activation to “20% On-Hit” (I assume this means ranged attacks would make it proc as well, cause that is what I want)
-Replace “%Chance to Slow Target” with “Freeze Target for 1-1.5 seconds”
-Reduce CD to 1 second (Reduce damage to compensate)

NOTE:
No the above changes aren’t outlandish, the relic’s skill is really really bad[/spoiler]

6. Isakandra’s Balance -

[spoiler]Pros-
-Decent stats overall but would like to propose some changes

Cons-
-Let me be blunt on this one. No caster would ever use it on an optimal build anymore. And you can quote me on that and we all know the reason.

Proposed Changes-
-Change %Bonus to Cast Speed to Total Speed
-Replace %Bonus of Fire and Cold with %bonus to Elemental
-The granted skill seems to be only good for Fire and Cold builds. Add in their third brother Lightning and make it work with Elemental completely (in-line with Iskandra’s Set and IEE’s elemental theme)
-The granted skill is meant to work only with an off-hand and in my opinion if this stays this way then this relic would never get to shine at all.
So I say adjust the values and remove weapon limitation.

The idea behind Iskandra relic proposal is to help out with Elemental build concepts that are rarely made w/o using Inquisitor. These changes are specifically directed at Cadence Discord a skill that I have tried with many 3 Elemental Class combinations and not one of them can give me a reason to not pick Inquisitor.[/spoiler]

In Closing -

[spoiler]>Inset obligatory joke about Mythical Warhammer of Heavenly Judgement<

Thank you for reading, I proposed these changes mainly because you guys took the initiative to actually re-do Menhir’s Bastion. Now what I am asking are not as complicated as skill re-dos, I am simply asking to look into the activation/skill recharge or relic stats

Only on Iskandra did I suggest a major change and I have a good reason to do that because currently Ignaffar’s Combustion is absolutely unchallenged as an Elemental Relic. Iskandra rework not only makes that relic relevant but it’ll also open possibilities for new builds (I think)[/spoiler]

2

I have never once in my life even considered using Iskandra, but only for one of the reasons you mentioned, being the Off-Hand requirement. The other reasons I don’t bother using it at all are the abysmal uptime on the proc (which is unaffected by the CDR offered by an Off-Hand) and the flat damage on the proc which most Off-Hand-using casters won’t ever actually make use of in any meaningful capacity. I have no idea what Arcanist build this is intended for; insofar as I can tell, base-game or with added itemization/skills from AoM, I don’t think this relic has any reason to exist in its current form.

Bane is fine, in my opinion. Has everything it needs and there’s nothing wrong with on-crit procs nor would I consider 1.3 seconds to be

For what purpose would you give -Energy Cost to Nemesis? I don’t see it, outside of a Phantasmal Blades build.

I’ve never liked Annihilation simply due to its lack of speed. So I can agree with that suggestion. As with Nemesis, the relic does not need -Energy Cost.

That degree of flat damage on a 1 second CD is pretty outlandish.

I agree it needs a CD reduction, but not to below 2 seconds. Your other suggestions are OK, too.

3

> I disagree, Bane isn’t nearly as powerful as Pyroclasm or Agrivix. It even has lesser AoE than them so at least its CD should be less.
The activation thing I removed, it feels like an unnecessary request and I concur that On Crit activation is perfectly fine.

> About the Nemesis Energy Cost thing, I can’t even remember why I put it in the original thread. I removed it from this one.

> Annihilation energy cost reduction was suggested for mortar trap builds which used to make use of this relic in vanilla. Demo has some other pretty energy heavy skills and would be nice to get some energy cost reduction there.

> Oddly enough I feel the same way about Oblivion but for the world of me I have never been able to think of an appropriate re-work. It is both good and bad at the same time.

4

Good thread. I wish someone with a lot of time and a thorough eye would do the same for blue/purple items, there are still quite a few that are practically never used since they are just not attractive.

My picks:
Reckoning
Never seen anyone use this. I think it would go a long way if the Pierce res, which builds like this typically have massive overcap of, were to be changed to a bottom row resist.

Citadel
The activated skill seems lackluster, especially compared to the buffed Menhir’s Bastion.
I know they’re different skill types, Relic tiers and the latter doesn’t have 100% uptime, but there is just no comparison between the two.

This could use something like an increase in the Shield Block chance modifier, and maybe ~15% increased armor on the aura.

5

I don’t see the problem with Citadel, isn’t it basically a DA heavy relic? At least it used to be one in vanilla.

As for Reckoning, I made a small proposal here, basically change Physical RR to 10 Reduced Resist to help out Retaliation build that lack innate RR

Also I am focusing on class only relics this time, I think first the class specific relics need to be buffed then we can take a look at the other ones. Iskandra has been begging for a rework since day 1, ceno brought up valid points. As a caster relic it had limited uses back in the days with AoM it’s useless.

6

I just know I wouldn’t consider Citadel in any build the way it currently is, but that’s me.
For Soldiers, Menhir’s is the obvious choice, but even for non-Soldiers I’d rather use Aegis or Avenger as a defensive option, that’s why I think that Relic needs something as a draw.

7

I know there are better options than Citadel, I thought DA was its main charm but now that I got a good look at it. It does indeed suck

8

The problem with Iskandra’s Balance is that it’s competing with two other great relics, Agrivix for the proc and Eternity because cdr is always useful to an arcanist. IB needs something to set it apart from those two, but I wouldn’t enjoy having to come up with what that is. Proper melee bonuses perhaps? It’s currently neither a caster or melee item and thus quite useless.

9

Total Speed bonuses and flat damage on the proc would turn it into a useful Elemental Melee relic I think. The proc’s uptime should be fairly decent though for it to be competent

10

Just my thoughts on Iskandra relic. If we want to provide more diversity for non-inquisitor elemental builds maybe also adding 10-15% of elemental RR to relic make it more attractive and useful and won’t be OP?

11

Where do you add it? :stuck_out_tongue: The relic proc as it now is a self buff (which presumably would have to be scrapped in favour of a debuff that applies RR).

Maybe you could have it as a standalone stat like how Open Hand of Mercy has % reduced RR but I don’t think any item in the game does this with -% RR.

12

Good point. Looks like to add RR to relic we need to change proc with damage balancing. On the first glance I see 2 ways: make proc as attack skill like in Ignaffar relic or if it is technically possible - aura with RR (like NB?).

13

The whole Iskandra’s set shtick adding flat elemental bonus to weapon damage attacks as well as physical to elemental conversion on an amulet does not make sense to me. So Crate sees the set as an auto-attacker that uses 1h weapon + …off-hand? Because Iskandra relic seems to follow that logic too. But what kind of build would be that?

14

Probably a Callidor’s Tempest relic. You basically attack in melee, have WD on you main attack etc.
It’s weird, though, because Iskandra’s set is aether focused (still grants some elemental support).

It’s kind of hard to even convert aether damage to elemental, so there’s another issue with the relic. You can get a fairly high amounth of -> lightning conversion, but only 36% to fire and no cold (or I just missed some items). The relic supports fire and cold, so this is also the issue.

The other idea would be arcanist as a support mastery for Flames of Ignaffar. Flames of Ignaffar have WD and is elemental (iirc it doesn’t support as much of cold damage, though). Iskandra’s set is again kind of a weird choice at this point, because Mageslayer’s set.

15

10-15% RR would turn it into Ignaffar’s Combustion 2.0 and I doubt it’d add to diversity of builds. It would make Arcanist based elemental builds less painful to play with
Also the skill would need to be replaced with a debuff template for that

Some gimmicky Melee/Caster hybrid that’d rely on Mirror and Iskandra’s Proc abuse. Changing the relic would be of great help to other builds

16

I am opened for further discussion. The relic indeed need rework to become useful and provide more diversity for Arcanist based elemental builds. Maybe we need sort of brainstorming to find the solution? :smiley:

17

I know this is an old thread but…I use this on my elemental tactician and it makes him do some CRAZY damage when it procs. We are talking 200k crits in a party and nearly 150k solo.