What do 2 handers SPECIFICALLY need? Case by Case?

[adoomgod]

I need you guys to talk to me about
Soullance: https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12657
and
Vortex of Souls: https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9405

[somnium]

Short repost

The Northern Wyrm is rather weak lacking any skill mods and no proc but a skill with a cd of 3 seconds that seems a bit weak for its cooldown. It also lacks the increase of DoT duration that most dot weapons seem to have.

[jinsaotomex4]

https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8800 - Mythical Death’s Reach

It wants to be a Vitality EoR weapon, but it lacks attack speed. It’s really hard to get enough Lighting -> Vitality or Phys -> Vitality from other gear and skills to make EoR’s flat damage good enough. Even just giving this weapon +10% attack speed and 25% Phys -> Vitality would make a huge difference.

Also, DAE think it’s weird that a grim reaper scythe weapon that does pure Vitality damage, has “Death” in the name, and grants a skill called “Wave of Souls” doesn’t have any Necromancer synergy built into it? Thematically, it just doesn’t make sense to me that this is an Occultist/Shaman/Oathkeeper weapon instead of Necro/Shaman/Oathkeeper or Necro/Occultist/Oathkeeper.

Personally, I would get rid of the EoR stuff and give this thing energy regen and increased energy regen or something so it’s a better caster weapon instead. This weapon is fantastic on a Ritualist, but that class combo goes through an insane amount of energy very quickly.

[adoomgod]

Bumping this thread in the hopes that people try the new 2-hander changes and report here which ones were made good enough and which still need work.

[mad_lee]

All right, time for me to chime in. First, two-handers that I actually used and tested:

1. Mythical Leviathan.
   I have tested it on 3 piece Warborn Witchblade. Now Witchblades are currently far behind their physical Soldier comrades Death Knights and Warlords (I am talking about relevant Physical Soldier builds) in just about everything. CoF casting makes them vulnerable in battle and lack of Occultist support on Soldier gear makes them one-dimensional.

Suggestions:

• Make it a Witchblade Weapon
• Add +2 to Occultist skills
• Add 15% total speed to Blood of Dreeg as a mod
• Change Cold conversion to Acid conversion
• Make attached skill a proc, nobody likes another button to press with minimal utility

It will give Witchblades some identity and will make Leviathan less gimmicky and niche and more of a real weapon. Current mods are honestly more of a joke and not really utilized (2h Physical Blademaster is a gimmicky spec and utilizes Cadence + cooldown Blade Arc and never ABB). It will also open up some interesting Cabalist/Sentinel specs.

Will it make Witchblades OP? Certainly not. DW or S&B Soldiers will still be better overall.

2. Blazerush

Cute weapon that is used basically nowhere apart from some fun melee Vindicators spec (I call them “fun” because they are much worse then all Lightning Vindicators, but still pretty strong). I have tested it on Fire Vire’s Might Archon. Results were pretty underwhelming. For a strong double RR class combination that also supports two handers it barely performed.

Suggestions:

• add +2 to Oathkeeper
• add either 15-19% CDR roll or flat CD to Vire’s Might
• add 50% Lightning to Fire conversion

3. Mythical Northren Wyrm

I used it on a cold ranged Vindicator.. The weapon is okay-ish. But it kind of lacks identity. To me it looks like the weapon that’s best utilized on Vindicators.

My suggestion:

• change +1 to arcanist to +1 to shaman (who and why would ever use it on arcanist is a mystery to me)
• add 50% lightning to cold conversion
• add some kind of wps proc instead of cooldown skill (again, having an extra button to push every 3 seconds is no fun)
• change Frostburn to Cold

Now, my ideas about the two-handers I have never used because they suck badly:

1. Venomlance

Ranged acid two-hander for a nightblade, uhmmmm, ye, why?

My suggestion:

• Add Amarasta’s Blade Burst mod that will remove cooldown from the skill completely, add an approriate damage penalty to ABB
• Make weapon 100% piercing (like Vortex of Souls)

What will be the result? Massive poison explosions across the map. Sounds like fun.

2. Mythical Dreadscorcher

Suggestions:

• make it add +2 to Demolitionist, +2 to Inquisitor, +2 to Necromancer, any build that uses that weapon they way it was intended to just doesn’t have enough skill points
• add 50% fire to aether conversion (we can get other 50% from the belt or/and amulet)

[adoomgod]

All right, time for me to chime in. First, two-handers that I actually used and tested:

1. Mythical Leviathan.
   I have tested it on 3 piece Warborn Witchblade. Now Witchblades are currently far behind their physical Soldier comrades Death Knights and Warlords (I am talking about relevant Physical Soldier builds) in just about everything. CoF casting makes them vulnerable in battle and lack of Occultist support on Soldier gear makes them one-dimensional.

Suggestions:

• Make it a Witchblade Weapon
• Add +2 to Occultist skills
• Add 15% total speed to Blood of Dreeg as a mod
• Change Cold conversion to Acid conversion
• Make attached skill a proc, nobody likes another button to press with minimal utility

The conversion change would piss some people off. All these changes all together are over the top. +1 Occultist alone would be nice along with a skill mod. Alternative to making the granted skill a proc, just make it do even more dmg, heck even raise the cd if you have to but let it be a proper nuke.

Will it make Witchblades OP? Certainly not. DW or S&B Soldiers will still be better overall.

2. Blazerush

Cute weapon that is used basically nowhere apart from some fun melee Vindicators spec (I call them “fun” because they are much worse then all Lightning Vindicators, but still pretty strong). I have tested it on Fire Vire’s Might Archon. Results were pretty underwhelming. For a strong double RR class combination that also supports two handers it barely performed.

Suggestions:

• add +2 to Oathkeeper
• add either 15-19% CDR roll or flat CD to Vire’s Might
• add 50% Lightning to Fire conversion

I have no idea how to make blazerush good, haven’t played with it enough, but on playing with it, it was bad for anything but melee fire. It’s not good for vire’s might. Which is funny given its theme.

3. Mythical Northren Wyrm

I used it on a cold ranged Vindicator.. The weapon is okay-ish. But it kind of lacks identity. To me it looks like the weapon that’s best utilized on Vindicators.

My suggestion:

• change +1 to arcanist to +1 to shaman (who and why would ever use it on arcanist is a mystery to me)
• add 50% lightning to cold conversion
• add some kind of wps proc instead of cooldown skill (again, having an extra button to push every 3 seconds is no fun)
• change Frostburn to Cold

I will say that if it’s going to stay arcanist, it’d need a craaazy skill mod.

Now, my ideas about the two-handers I have never used because they suck badly:

1. Venomlance

Ranged acid two-hander for a nightblade, uhmmmm, ye, why?

My suggestion:

• Add Amarasta’s Blade Burst mod that will remove cooldown from the skill completely, add an approriate damage penalty to ABB
• Make weapon 100% piercing (like Vortex of Souls)

What will be the result? Massive poison explosions across the map. Sounds like fun.

yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes

I love that concept. Zantai please. Zantai PLEASE. Make venomlance 100% passthru ABB 0 cooldown build. Heck, you could make it 100% passthrough to ABB and -1.8s to ABB so you only get the passthru with ABB.

And yeah a dmg penalty or -% weapon dmg or a combination of the 2 ought to control the power of the skill. But we’d finally have a good ranged ABB item and it’d be stylish as hell. Lots of potential for coolfactor in this idea.

My thoughts in green.

Emphasis on the last one, that venomlance concept… hnnngh.

needs to be in game

[mad_lee]

About Northren Wyrm. Arcanist and two-handers just don’t get along well in-general. The only real options for Arcanist based class beside caster off-hands are S&B specs (very rare and very weak) or DW-specs (basically Spellbreakers or Spellbinders with Theodin stick). Arcanist is really a last mastery you want for 2h-build (unless it’s some gimmicky one or old forgotten Soulrend breaker).

About Leviathan. I 100% sure that amount of people that are disappointed that weapon doesn’t support proper Physical Soldier specs outweigh people who decided to play meme Blademaster with ABB. 2h Blademaster physical build is just not synergetic at all. Why even cater to that weird niche playstyle, when you can support a whole class with lost and forgotten identity.

Also, I don’t think suggested changes are over the top. It would still be nowhere near the solidness of DW Death Knight specs or any Warlord specs (talking about physical specs of course). If you want a 2hander to be used and to be build-enabling item, you have to make them REALLY good. Otherwise it’s going to stay forever in meme-tier gimmicky niche “what could’ve been” category.

Like how many top-tier 2handed melee specs can be seen in builds section nowadays that are not casters or hybrids like Stormreaver/Totem specs? Or even mid-tier specs? Even Ultos somehow lags behind (although it’s the best pure melee two-handed builds can offer).

And I remembered another great two-hander that is completely forgotten in FG:

Soulrend.

Weapon only dropped once in a blue moon by a roguelike boss. Pretty hard to get. Even harder to get a well rolled one (cdr roll can make or break a weapon). Where is it used? Nowhere really.

My suggestions:

Add piercing to cold conversion and/or Shadow Strike mod to it.

[ya1]

1. Venomlance

Ranged acid two-hander for a nightblade, uhmmmm, ye, why?

My suggestion:

• Add Amarasta’s Blade Burst mod that will remove cooldown from the skill completely, add an approriate damage penalty to ABB
• Make weapon 100% piercing (like Vortex of Souls)

What will be the result? Massive poison explosions across the map. Sounds like fun.

Oh, yeah! Fantastic suggestion. And and cast speed to that.

[idontwannaknow0]

All right, time for me to chime in. First, two-handers that I actually used and tested:

1. Mythical Leviathan.
   I have tested it on 3 piece Warborn Witchblade. Now Witchblades are currently far behind their physical Soldier comrades Death Knights and Warlords (I am talking about relevant Physical Soldier builds) in just about everything. CoF casting makes them vulnerable in battle and lack of Occultist support on Soldier gear makes them one-dimensional.

Suggestions:

• Make it a Witchblade Weapon
• Add +2 to Occultist skills
• Add 15% total speed to Blood of Dreeg as a mod
• Change Cold conversion to Acid conversion
• Make attached skill a proc, nobody likes another button to press with minimal utility

It will give Witchblades some identity and will make Leviathan less gimmicky and niche and more of a real weapon. Current mods are honestly more of a joke and not really utilized (2h Physical Blademaster is a gimmicky spec and utilizes Cadence + cooldown Blade Arc and never ABB). It will also open up some interesting Cabalist/Sentinel specs.

Will it make Witchblades OP? Certainly not. DW or S&B Soldiers will still be better overall.

2. Blazerush

Cute weapon that is used basically nowhere apart from some fun melee Vindicators spec (I call them “fun” because they are much worse then all Lightning Vindicators, but still pretty strong). I have tested it on Fire Vire’s Might Archon. Results were pretty underwhelming. For a strong double RR class combination that also supports two handers it barely performed.

Suggestions:

• add +2 to Oathkeeper
• add either 15-19% CDR roll or flat CD to Vire’s Might
• add 50% Lightning to Fire conversion

Leviathan is a really good suggestion. Witchblade being that far behind Warlord is plain sad; WB usually ends up being worse than WL most of the time anyway.

About Blazerush. Elementalist also needs some love (as usual!). Some +all skill to demo or something that helps Elementalist (because the grenado mod does less damage than a single charged savagery hit lol). I had not considered the vire might mod before, does it only affect the initial hit or does it cause WD% per volcanic stride tic? I suspect only the initial hit which would make it far behind vindicator. Archon has the nuisance of savagery + RF for consecration already, the weapon has no cdr and only gives +skill to tectonic shift which scales very bad post 12/12 anyway. The mod seems bad like the grenado mod; better off auto attacking.

[USER_NAME_01]

Bumping this thread in the hopes that people try the new 2-hander changes and report here which ones were made good enough and which still need work.

It’s a waste of time for me to play a two handed build. I usually play the game 6 hours a day when I am really into playing right now, usually it’s about 2 - 3 hours a day, and I also get many freezes because my PC is the best PC in the world and I rather play something I know I’ll enjoy than test a random two handed weapon that’ll be fun for 1 more level after 94.

I also feel like Crate is scared to buff two handers, as every buff/rework doesn’t actually change anything for them, just gives another option for a build, nothing else. It has been stated multiple times that two handers need about 2.5 times the damage dual wield characters pull off, as two handers have low AS and shield feels way better than dealing 30% more damage with a two hander and have no defense. Literally pointless to even try at this point, imo.

[Gaildor]

All right, time for me to chime in. First, two-handers that I actually used and tested:

1. Mythical Leviathan.
   I have tested it on 3 piece Warborn Witchblade.
   Suggestions:

• Make it a Witchblade Weapon
• Add +2 to Occultist skills
• Add 15% total speed to Blood of Dreeg as a mod
• Change Cold conversion to Acid conversion
• Make attached skill a proc, nobody likes another button to press with minimal utility

Will it make Witchblades OP? Certainly not. DW or S&B Soldiers will still be better overall.

This would force me to play Witchblade instead of Blademaster.
I’d suggest Crate crates one or more 2h weapon for physical Witchblade.

Make attached skill a proc has been mentioned so many times, still Z (or Crate) won’t budge a inch on this feedback :(.
10~20% chance on critical attack won’t make it op in any circumstance.

I also feel like Crate is scared to buff two handers, as every buff/rework doesn’t actually change anything for them, just gives another option for a build, nothing else.

Oh my god you read my mind :). New 5% ADCtH to ABB on Leviathan is so lame for Blademaster.
Don’t know Witchblade feel the same on this though.
[Edited]
Laughing at myself, Witchblade doesn’t have ABB, maybe I’m thinking about Witch Hunter.
Any kind wayfarer should give me a hit on my head.

It’s not fair, that DW, 1h+shield or 1h+offhand can use 2 components, while 2h can use only one. Either make components on 2h more powerful, or add few powerful ones specifically for 2-h.

Crate has rejected this idea. All we can do for now is providing practical changes on weapons, armors, and skills.

[Avyctes]

I’ve recently tried to make a defiler build with dreadscorcher, it’s … not a good idea. For a weapon that could be the critical part of one of the very few defiler builds that aren’t hopelessly terrible, it does nothing for necromancer. I mean, making a moderately effective defiler is almost an exercise in futility, I know, but this weapon could manage it. But it doesn’t. Why does this aether weapon have inquisitor support anyway?

[somnium]

I’ve recently tried to make a defiler build with dreadscorcher, it’s … not a good idea. For a weapon that could be the critical part of one of the very few defiler builds that aren’t hopelessly terrible, it does nothing for necromancer. I mean, making a moderately effective defiler is almost an exercise in futility, I know, but this weapon could manage it. But it doesn’t. Why does this aether weapon have inquisitor support anyway?

The inquisitor support is for using it on a purifier with Bonemonger. This makes sense now that Termite Mines have aether rr and I would like to keep that. Still its not that great of a weapon on that either as you have serious lack the skill points.

The +2 to necromancer, demolitionist and Inquisitor and the fire to aether conversion are good suggestions IMO.

[MortalKombat]

It’s not fair, that DW, 1h+shield or 1h+offhand can use 2 components, while 2h can use only one. Either make components on 2h more powerful, or add few powerful ones specifically for 2-h.