I’ve built a level 100 Warder to the point where not even 160-170 Gladi Crucible can touch my health pool, my punishment for being so tanky, is that I can not farm efficiently as I can not kill bosses anywhere near as quickly as a speedier build - I am happy with that and it is to be expected as the benefits are that nothing in the game dents my health beyond 80% at most. So why does this game insist on punishing my highly defensive build even further, by allowing a wave of 5 healing champions to exist in the crucible? If I would have known I would not be able to complete the next 10 waves due to poor wave RNG I wouldn’t have started them now would I and wasted two and a half hours -.-
Usually one of the main appeals of an ARPG is that any build can do all content, the differences in the builds deciding what content it excels at and what content it is not as good for. But there is a difference between my tanky build not being that good for crucible(which I already knew it was going to be) because it is slow, and my build not being allowed to complete the crucible because Crate have implemented a moronic damage check in a random wave.
This is probably just a salty rant but surely being a slow build and inefficient boss killer is more than enough punishment for investing in a lot of tank, it doesn’t need to cockblock me from completing the Crucible on top of that.
sounds like you should find a more balanced (offense vs defense) build
Usually one of the main appeals of an ARPG is that any build can do all content
nope, not all builds can do all content. For starters bad builds won’t get far in the Crucible. Neither highly offensive nor highly defensive builds stand a good chance in high Crucible waves or against super-bosses either.
What you need is a somewhat balanced build with solid skill selection and good gear.
What should be true is that all combinations of two masteries should be able to complete all content if they come up with a good build and the gear to match.
This is probably just a salty rant but surely being a slow build and inefficient boss killer is more than enough punishment for investing in a lot of tank.
You can go too far to either side, have a tank that cannot kill anything, or have a glass cannon that dies when someone looks at him wrong. Neither is a good build and both rightfully fail.
There is an area in the middle that can be either on the tanky or cannon side, but you cannot go too extreme in either direction.
Out of curiosity, what does your Warder build look like ?
Any build can do all content == fallacy.
Thanks for the reply.
1H and shield focused on retaliation with massive life regen, block and absorption stats. If I’m focusing on retaliate as the main damage source, how can I change the build to be more offensive, since my damage is based purely on the enemy wanting to hit me. Slow attackers and spell caster shitters don’t do that reliably so I have some on hit procs to deal with them with 1 point in Savagery which is also for Tenacity of the Boar, but I can’t see how to increase my damage when I am ret based - without changing the ideals of the build.
agreed, hard for retaliation. FG might help with that however
The game is not balanced around crucible, which is good.
> Tanky Warder
> No maxed Break Morale for Skill Disruption to force casters to melee you and prevent healers from healing.
I think this is on you, my dude.
Amen to the second part. I am seeing more and more posts complaining about characters not viable enough in Crucible and I am getting worried. However it seems like Crate is still balancing the game around the MAIN GAME, but not the CRUCIBLE.
Isn’t the pay-off “become immortal but can’t kill stuff quick” kinda the logic balancing?
You can’t always have everything. Perhaps you invested too much in defense. One can’t say with no gt link.
You test and then balance your char. Not much use in saying that some waves are moronic( designed as a challenge arena…it’s not MC). If something doesn’t work, tweaks need to be made
It’s because Crucible is an additional content you CAN but DON’T HAVE TO buy in order to play the game. Balancing the game around Crucible would force players to buy it, because the main game would be too shit to play. Another factor is that Crate doesn’t want to merge Crucible and the main game, because, yes, it would make people spend less money (or maybe the same amount for the base game now?), but Crucible still would be an addition. And Crate doesn’t want people to spend more money in order to have fun playing the game. Imagine yourself buying a new game, it ends up having shit balance, shit everything in general, but everyone says that the game is good, then you see a guy playing the same game but in another area, it forces you to play the game to see if it’s really that good, but it still ends up being shit and then you realize you have to spend additional money to have fun playing the game. You basically wasted time to play the game, wasted money for the game and there’s no turning back now. Crate wants the main game to be interesting only because of that. Why would they want to waste people’s time and money to then find out the game is fun only if you buy an addition, a DLC? I bet they’d rather be known as “The good game designer team, Crate Entertainment” rather than “Money sucking insulting word, Crate Entertainment” (I simply don’t feel like adding any insult to that, mostly because everyone would insult them their own way).
Yeah I already have a plan to make an Oathkeeper/Soldier or Shaman retaliation based since the Oathkeeper allows attacks to add a portion of ret damage to them. Can’t remember if it was an attack or a passive which caused this interaction but will check the Misadventure.
How did this thread become a conversation about Crucible and Crate’s design ethos? 
@Ceno - I do have Break Morale but I don’t think it disrupts for long enough to stop them casting entirely until their dead or before they get a heal off.
I love you for many reasons, this is one of them 
Probably because you brought it up.
I only brought up the idea that it seems strange to have such a wave type implemented if only to block certain build types from completing it. I’m not asking or implying Crate should balance the game around Crucible at all, as posters before me have said, it is additional content and it is not mandatory to play it.
I really, really doubt Crate have done this to stop specific builds, isn’t the mobs that appear semi-random?
Sort of, yes. Some spawns are fixed, but not all.
Crucible was not originally designed to be completable by everything under the sun, though balancing buffs to players and nerfs to enemies have created a powercreep that creates far, far more variety in endgame Crucible than used to be the case. Still, it doesn’t surprise me that builds with all defense and no offense can’t complete it. Hell, there are things in the main campaign that can’t be done by retaliation builds in general.
Edit: Being as the primary topic of this thread is “Why?”, I’d wager the answer is somewhere along the lines of Crate not wanting people to be able to AFK in their game and still get through everything.
I am already well aware of the problems my build faces in Port Valbury having been there and ran into the same brickwall 
No, not a single one. Everyone who posts that they like doing a thing you don’t is lying.
ANALOGY: I made a 8k health and 2.2da Agrivix that can do under 5 minutes. Why am I being punished by getting one-shot by Reaper? Huh? HUH?