Yet another question on conversion mechanics...

[sir_spanksalot]

You’re taking about a weighted pool here, and that’s generally correct.

But conversion involving elemental damage vs conversions involving any ONE of the 3 elemental types do not get thrown into the same pool.

[malawiglenn]

This may confuse newbies (talking about myself, since I had this doubt).

While it is true, it should be noted that once, means your 100% damage can be converted only once. But 1 thing converting 30% of your damage and another thing another 30% and then another 40%, counts as once. So you could say each “unit” of your damage can only be converted once.

At least this is what Ive understood, correct me if Im wrong.

Yeah that is probably a better way of phrasing it. A converted flat number can never be converted again.

[Lord_Yanaek]

I have 90% Elemental to physical conversion, courtesy of octavius set + spellscourge set.

I now put on voidheart - 25% fire to chaos.

This conversion is occuring at the same level.

I think I’ll convert 90% of my fire damage to physical first, and then convert the 25% of the remainder to chaos damage.

From what i’ve read, recently as i recently started, but i could have misunderstood as i have for other mechanics :

• 1st step of conversion is skill transmuters
• 2nd step is everything else but armor piercing, all occuring at once and stacking additively
• Last step is armor piercing

That would mean that in your case, with all item conversion you are converting 90%+25%=115% of physical damage into something (actually all damage as you can’t convert more than 100%, no way to increase damage with conversion).
Something would thus be divided into physical and chaos

[ul]
[li]Physical : 90/115100 = 78.3%[/li]
[li]Chaos : 25/115100 = 21.7%[/ul][/li]
Am i wrong again? :rolleyes:

EDIT : too slow once again and it looks like there’s another added subtlety :undecided:

[malawiglenn]

And yes, "Elemental damage converted to … " goes before the actual fire, cold, lightning conversions

So 50% Elemental converted to physical and then 50% Fire damage converted to physical

100 flat fire to begin with, we end up with 75 flat physical and 25 flat fire after conversions

[kalarro]

From what i’ve read, recently as i recently started, but i could have misunderstood as i have for other mechanics :

• 1st step of conversion is skill transmuters
• 2nd step is everything else but armor piercing, all occuring at once and stacking additively
• Last step is armor piercing

That would mean that in your case, with all item conversion you are converting 90%+25%=115% of physical damage into something (actually all damage as you can’t convert more than 100%, no way to increase damage with conversion).
Something would thus be divided into physical and chaos

[ul]
[li]Physical : 90/115100 = 78.3%[/li]
[li]Chaos : 25/115100 = 21.7%[/ul][/li]
Am i wrong again? :rolleyes:

hehe you understood the problem same as I did and said the same solution. But seems his doubt is about the origin of the damage being elemental on one conversion and fire on the other

[malawiglenn]

• 1st step of conversion is skill transmuters
• 2nd step is everything else but armor piercing, all occuring at once and stacking additively
• Last step is armor piercing

That would mean that in your case, with all item conversion you are converting 90%+25%=115% of physical damage into something (actually all damage as you can’t convert more than 100%, no way to increase damage with conversion).
Something would thus be divided into physical and chaos

[ul]
[li]Physical : 90/115100 = 78.3%[/li]
[li]Chaos : 25/115100 = 21.7%[/ul][/li]
Am i wrong again? :rolleyes:

EDIT : too slow once again and it looks like there’s another added subtlety :undecided:

Item skill modifiers happens before Item skill transmuters

Global Elemental > x conversions goes before Global individidual Fire, Cold, Lightning > yconversions and Armor piercing goes last

[Lord_Yanaek]

hehe you understood the problem same as I did and said the same solution. But seems his doubt is about the origin of the damage being elemental on one conversion and fire on the other

Yeah, just saw you had answered faster than i did. Maybe i should try Aether crystals to grow more fingers and type faster

[Lord_Yanaek]

Item skill modifiers happens before Item skill transmuters

Global Elemental > x conversions goes before Global individidual Fire, Cold, Lightning > yconversions and Armor piercing goes last

I was talking about transmuters on the skill (discord on Cadence). Don’t they apply before any other conversion?

And yes, i’ve read all the stuff about elemental being a different pool, but there were too many posts at once and everybody has answered several times in the end :rolleyes:

EDIT : sorry for double post but i was expecting more would be inserted between, looks like i wasn’t slow enough this time :rolleyes:

[malawiglenn]

I was talking about transmuters on the skill (discord on Cadence). Don’t they apply before any other conversion?

And yes, i’ve read all the stuff about elemental being a different pool, but there were too many posts at once and everybody has answered several times in the end :rolleyes:

EDIT : sorry for double post but i was expecting more would be inserted between, looks like i wasn’t slow enough this time :rolleyes:

Item skill conversions happens before skill transmuter conversions.

Example of item skill conversion:
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9112

These gloves will convert all physical damage on Discord to Chaos even if you use the Discord transmuter or not…

[sir_spanksalot]

Item skill conversions happens before skill transmuter conversions.

Example of item skill conversion:
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9112

These gloves will convert all physical damage on Discord to Chaos even if you use the Discord transmuter or not…

I don’t believe that’s true.

IIRC, items which directly convert a damage type of a skill (e.g. 100% phys to chaos to cadence) is considered as a transmutor.

So if you take both discord and use those gloves, you’d get 50% phys to chaos, 50% phys to ele.

EDIT: In other words, conversions occuring at the same level in the conversion hierarchy enter a weighted pool.

[Norzan]

Skill mods and mastery transmuters happen at the same time because they are the same thing. Try Phantasmal Blades with the transmuter and then equip Speaker for the Dead - half of the base damage will be flat vitality while the other is flat cold.

Conversion gets divided between both skill mod and transmuter.

[malawiglenn]

I don’t believe that’s true.

IIRC, items which directly convert a damage type of a skill (e.g. 100% phys to chaos to cadence) is considered as a transmutor.

So if you take both discord and use those gloves, you’d get 50% phys to chaos, 50% phys to ele.

EDIT: In other words, conversions occuring at the same level in the conversion hierarchy enter a weighted pool.

I have done testing in game here is result:

http://www.grimdawn.com/guide/gameplay/combat.php#q20

The order of events for Conversion is as follows: Base Skill > Skill Modifiers > Conversion on the Skill or Transmuter > Conversion on Equipment and Buffs > Equipment, Auras and Passives

Now, can someone give an example of “Skill Modifiers” here? Is there any skill that has conversion on its modifier?

[Lord_Yanaek]

In my understanding the skill modifier was the damage added to a skill such as the fire damage added by Blazeheart. I thought it was mentioned in the conversion chain simply to make it clear that it’s added before transmuters are applied but it’s not a conversion itself. Base skill isn’t a conversion either, nor is the last step.

But then my understanding have been wrong before.

[malawiglenn]

In my understanding the skill modifiers was damage added to a skill such as the fire damage added by Blazeheart and i thought it was mentioned in the conversion chain to make it clear that it’s added before transmuters are applied but not a conversion itself. Base skill isn’t a modifier either.

But then my understanding have been wrong before.

I do really hope that the game guide gets a serious overhaul with more examples after FG is released.

[sir_spanksalot]

Ok. So I was really confused about the wording on the order of conversion, and asked the same question as you did malawiglenn.

And korsar the magnificent replied with this:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showpost.php?p=631243&postcount=13

[malawiglenn]

Ok. So I was really confused about the wording on the order of conversion, and asked the same question as you did malawiglenn.

And korsar the magnificent replied with this:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showpost.php?p=631243&postcount=13

Great pic.

The game guide should be filled with those and the example I made with the gloves and servitor corruptor.

[sir_spanksalot]

I mean, at the end of the day, crate is ultimately human.

Call me biased, but I also think this ambiguity brings the forum closer together. It fosters discussion

[malawiglenn]

I mean, at the end of the day, crate is ultimately human.

Call me biased, but I also think this ambiguity brings the forum closer together. It fosters discussion

That is true. ARPG’s is also about discovering the game mechanics together, especially single player oriented games like GD

[Lord_Yanaek]

Thanks sir, you’re a real Sir

So in order to recapitulate and check i have it right this time. Taking Cadence as our example on a Warder using Blazeheart (avg rolls) with 1 pt into discord (totally stupid build, but it’s an example ) and Stormcaller’s pact :

• Cadence deals physical damage, let’s say 100.
• Physical damage is increased by Fighting Form, let’s say 50% to 150 physical.
• 33% of the 150 damage gets converted by Discord to Elemental : we now have 100 physical and 50 elemental (rounded)
• Leftover physical damage is converted by Stormcaller’s pact and Blazeheart : we now have 50 elemental, 15 fire, 15 lighting and 70 physical or put in other words 16.7 cold, 31.7 fire, 31.7 lighting.
• Blazeheart’s 147% fire applies now, bringing fire damage to 46.6 (and every other equipment boost also applies now)

[sir_spanksalot]

Yes. Exactly that.

You got it mate!

Just to make sure we understand each other perfectly though, if you get 3/3 discord transmutor, you will deal 150 elemental damage, or 50 fire/ice/lightning.

NONE of the physical damage will get converted by blazeheart or whatever.

This makes for interesting builds. Veretragna once used the chaos cadence gloves on a 2H weapon which does cold damage.

Because it has no inherent physical damage, nothing gets converted to chaos. Net gain: +30% WD to cadence.