[1.0.0.7] BWC Sorcerer - Fire walk with me!

Thx and enjoy while it last, I know I did :wink:

Itā€™s already getting nerfed with Agonizing Flames reducing flat resists by less and Flame Touched OA and flat fire being reduced.

This build is taking a pretty minor hit next patch. It will still be more than viable. Maybe Iā€™m interpreting your wording incorrectly, but it looks like this build will be able to enjoy the same amount of success next patch as it does currently.

Thereā€™s always the next patch:)

Its not a minor hit (tho compared to some other builds probably it is), but it will be viable. Not sure about same amount of success tho :smiley:

And even after the next one there is next one, nerf hammer is sometimes slow but inevitable :smiley:

I think I got this on a fortune cookie the other day when I got chinese takeout.

Alright, letā€™s take a look at all of the changes that affect this build and then go from there, because I would like to have a discussion about the impact of next patch on this build since I find it to be quite a lot of fun.

Buffs are in green, nerfs are in red:

[Crucible]

[ul]
[li]Slightly reduced Monster Damage and Health scaling with Wave # on Challenger and Gladiator difficulties, more so on Gladiator difficulty.[/li]> [li]Slightly reduced bonus to Monster resistance to Crowd Control based on wave # at all difficulties, more so on Aspirant difficulty.[/li]> [li]Removed bonus to Monster resistance to Slow Effects and Movement Speed based on wave # at all difficulties.[/li]> [/ul]
[Game]

[ul]
[li]Slightly reduced Nemesis boss Offensive Ability[/li]> [li]Slightly reduced Physical damage dealt by monsters on Ultimate difficulty[/li]> [li]Slightly increased % Energy Regeneration gained from Spirit (was 0.25%, now 0.26%)[/li]> [/ul]
[Itemization]

[ul]
[li]Legendary - Mark of Divinity: increased cooldown on skill proc to 120s[/li]> [li]Relic - Ulzuinā€™s Pyroclasm: reduced % Weapon damage on skill proc to 8%[/li]> [/ul]
[Class & Skills]

Devotion

[ul]
[li]Eel: increased Defensive Ability by 7[/li]> [li]Magi: added 20 Defensive Ability, increased % Burn damage by 60%[/li]> [li]Oklaineā€™s Lantern: added 20 Defensive Ability[/li]> [li]Sailorā€™s Guide: added 8 Defensive Ability[/li]> [li]Solaelā€™s Witchblade: added 10 Defensive Ability[/li]> [li]Meteor Shower: Thermite Mines can no longer be assigned to this proc, slightly increased damage (this may cause your skill assignment to reset for this Celestial Power)[/li]> [/ul]
Demolitionist

[ul]
[li]Agonizing Flames: reduced Resistance Reduction scaling at ultimate ranks to 30 by max rank[/li]> [li]Demon Fire: slightly increased Chaos damage scaling at ranks 1-5[/li]> [li]Blast Shield: reduced Damage Absorption at ultimate ranks, 1750 by max ultimate rank. Increased cooldown to 14s and reduced the Health Activation Threshold to 60%.[/li]> [li]Flame Touched: slightly increased % Fire/Lightning/Burn damage scaling at ultimate ranks, added % Electrocute bonus. Slightly reduced flat Fire damage and Offensive Ability scaling at ultimate ranks, to 55 and 220 respectively at max rank.[/li]> [li]Temper: slightly increased % Physical/Pierce damage scaling at ultimate ranks, increased % Internal Trauma damage scaling. Slightly reduced flat Physical damage scaling at ultimate ranks, to 52-62 by max rank.[/li]> [li]Searing Light: reduced chance of Fumble and Impaired Aim to 33% by rank 10, 40% by max ultimate rank[/li]> [li]Thermite Mines: reduced % Fire and Lightning Resistance Reduction scaling with rank, to -40% by rank 16, -50% by max ultimate rank[/li]> [li]Hellfire Mines: slightly increased Chaos damage scaling at ranks 1-5[/li]> [/ul]
Arcanist

[ul]
[li]Elemental Balance: slightly increased % Burn/Frostburn/Electrocute damage scaling at ultimate ranks[/li]> [li]Overload: slightly increased % Elemental damage scaling, particularly at ultimate ranks, increased base Burn/Frostburn/Electrocute damage[/li]> [li]Sphere of Protection: penalty to Physical damage removed. Total Damage Penalty can now be reduced to 0 by max ultimate rank[/li]> [/ul]

Okay, so I wasnā€™t sure how to classify the changes to Meteor Shower and Temper.
On meteors we are losing the cheesy interaction with Thermite Mines, but the Meteors are going to be stronger as a result.
Temper is such a minimal part of the build, Iā€™m not sure whether to classify it as a nerf or not, but the few weapon procs we have will lose a bit of damage.

So from a quick glance of this list, it looks like the enemies will not hit us as hard, which is a good buff to the build. On the other hand, however, Mark of Divinity proc got another 30 seconds added to itā€™s cooldown. This may affect performance in Crucible since it has less uptime, but it shouldnā€™t have too large of an impact. Another thing to notice is that we got an extra 45 DA from devotions for free. Blast Shield is still going to perform extremely well even with the nerf.

Looking at the Demo changes quickly may make it seem like a huge nerf, but when you inspect them closer I donā€™t think they will hurt that badly, especially with all of the other buffs that the build is getting indirectly. We lose 6 flat RR, and we lose 10% fire RR. Sure, this is a significant damage nerf, but I donā€™t think damage was something that this build was struggling to obtain in the first place. Weā€™ll lose a bit of OA with Flame Touched nerf, and the flat fire nerf will only have an effect on the procs that do weapon damage (only Ulzuinā€™s Pyroclasm and Flame Torrent procs?). You probably wonā€™t be able to notice a huge difference from the Searing Light change.

The biggest nerfs come in the form of RR, but I donā€™t think itā€™s going to be enough to pull this build down at all. I think the nerfs to monsters and the minor buffs that we get will make up for it. Iā€™d love to hear more in-depth on what you think of the changes.

a single nerfs can be worse than 10 so called buffs. Agonizing Flames, Flame touched and Thermites nerfed. Stuff like 8 added defensive ability is ok but not equally comparable

Jeez just yesterday i finally hit lv 75 and struggled for 3 hours to cap resists (though Stun is only at 30% - that Stonehide of Kings is elusive as world peace even after 5k+ craftsā€¦).

And ofc nerf incoming lol - tbh even most contemporary MMOs arent that fast to resort to nerfs and that is a competitive environment.

First they kill BM, now Markovian set. Next i assume is anything which has good performance (my Dreeg set WH i guess is going to kick the bucket next). Why would people chase after high end sets and items if only to see them nerfed in 6 months time i just cannot comprehend this.

Anyway, JoV - Big Thank you for all your hard work you put into this community.
Since i barely have enough time to play adequately (demanding job) nowadays i rely on awesome people like you who are open to share and enrich GD community and experience. I wouldnt want to lose your valuable input however i would also not want to have reasons for Crate brings the nerf hammer every single patch, wasting people`s time spent on gathering items and leveling characters either.

Now i am totally afraid to start a char because of the fear that it will get made mediocre down the lineā€¦just because of reasons.

Like I said, the nerfs are there, and they will hurt, but I still donā€™t think that they are as bad as many people keep saying they will be. The buffs are just that, not ā€œso called buffsā€, since they increase stats. They will soften the blow a bit. However, I do realize that the nerfs are stronger than the buffs in this case. Anyways, I donā€™t think itā€™s fair to anyone in this thread, or to anyone looking to play this build to be completely doom and gloom about the upcoming patch. The build will still perform incredibly well, and will still be an absolute blast to play.

I cant judge about changes where they wrote slightly this or slightly that w/o any specific numbers ie. first 5 things on your listing.

Legendary - Mark of Divinity: increased cooldown on skill proc to 120s -Its overall effect to your last resort circuit breaker. If you performance is good it wont have almost any effect.

Relic - Ulzuinā€™s Pyroclasm: reduced % Weapon damage on skill proc to 8%- It will effect your dps output slightly but it will largely effect your ability to ADCTH. Noting significant because you dont rely on ADCTH much but still its a nerf.

Devotions - you have plenty of DA you dont need more of it you need OA, and since I recommended defensive setup, that setup doesnā€™t use Magi or M Shower.

Agonizing Flames: reduced Resistance Reduction scaling at ultimate ranks to 30 by max rank - You will lose dps, how much exactly is going to be seen after patch go live but it will be significant amount for sure.

Demon Fire: slightly increased Chaos damage scaling at ranks 1-5 - Irellevant

Blast Shield: Its a nerf to your survivability, how much will depend of slight changes they made to monsters. What I can tell for sure is that with change of CD on blast shield facetanking MQ is out of question in any case, we will se about other bosses/nemesis.

Flame Touched: I will just state that I would trade that DA gain for this OA lost any time.

Searing Light: Impact to your survivalbility, when coupled with changes to BS it will be significant

Thermite Mines: Same as agonizing flames.

Hellfire Mines: Irelevant

Elemental Balance: Almost irelevant

Overload: Totally irelevant

Sphere of Protection: You dont deal almost any phys dmg so changes to it donā€™t have any affect unless they change scaling on total dmg penalty till rank 12.

My two cents about upcoming Pach. Note that Changes to BS and SL will have highest impact to your survivalbility and changes to AF and TM to your dps output. We will find out son enough what those ĖslightĖ for now not mesurable changes will bring, but Im 100% sure that they will not compensate the loss.
Stating that, I want to say that this build will be 100% viable but I cant be sure will it be tier1 crucible farmer any more.

Hope that this in-dept you asked :wink:

I figured I would list every change that had an affect, no matter how insignificant. I suppose all we can do now is wait and see when the patch goes live.

Thx :slight_smile:

And I will save you the trouble of being torn on two sides, I wont post any ĖopĖ build any more :smiley:

No one here is doom or gloom, but looking trough short history of GD I cant resist the feeling that this build dont have bright future, maybe not even future at all when I look what they done/planing to do with DW BMs. And that wouldnā€™t be first time that Crate kills some build for w/e reasons.

Note one thing, those changes/nerfs were made in less than a day after I and some other guys pointed some things to Crate (Zantai), Im 100% sure it wont be the end of it, this was just slight preemptive hit, larger one will come probably next patch or so.

Just caught up on this thread and I agree 100% with the frustration.
Iā€™m quite new to the game and havenā€™t beaten Elite yet since I keep switching builds. Every posted build gets nerfed - itā€™s as if the brainless devs are just sitting reading the forums and squishing evcerything that works.

I didnā€™t buy the game to agonisingly grind past every mob - and a lot of levelling so far has been endless kiting to try to preserve some constitution - I bought it to have FUN.

And as has been said, it ainā€™t fun when you start to try out a build and the darned thing is useless by the time you get anywhere near completing it. Not just level 85 but all the gear.

Not sure Iā€™ll keep playing - shame, it could have been really god fun.

One thing they MUST do if they are going to keep moving the goal posts like thisā€¦ they must allow ALL skill point types to be reset cheaply/free. By that I mean not just devotions and skill trees, but mastery points and even choice of classes.

Itā€™s really annoying to have 2 classes with 50 in each mastery, find your target build gets nerfed and then find the next you want to try in that class has, say 50/40 so you have to start over or make a second-rate character.

Crap. Give us some flexibility or stop changing the game except at expansions. People WANT to find OP builds, they want to be able to feel powerful - nerfing is NOT the answer, buffing weaker builds is the answer.

And get some money for multiplayer ffs, it makes good games great.

/rant

With all due respect though, yours hasnā€™t been the only ā€œopā€ BWC/IK build. AyyyLmaoā€™s BWC Pyromancer crushed Gladiator before your post, and there have been Youtube Gladiator runs by BWC/IK commandos since at least November 2016 (including Gladiator with extra spawn).

I canā€™t imagine that Crate had been completely unaware of all of this. From your description, the weird timing of the change sounds more like they decided that things had reached a critical mass, with so many different builds over-performing their peers using the same combination (BWC/IK) that they didnā€™t want this to simply become the next ā€œmetaā€ to replace S&B soldier builds.

This is not to take anything away from this build, which has been really well put together and is probably my favorite of all the BWC/IK builds. I think your build happened to be the most prominent nail receiving a hammer intended for an entire class of builds.

In fact, Iā€™m not even sure that the nerfs discussed here had specifically singled out BWC/IK. Resist reduction nerfs to Agonizing Flames and Thermite Mines are consistent with the nerfs to Manticore and BSoD. The nerfs to Blast Shield and Searing Light are consistent with the other defensive nerfs (such as to Circle of Slaughter) so that squishier builds (like occultists) are more competitive with tankier builds. These seem more like broad nerfs for consistency rather than targeted BWC/IK nerfs. Which, as youā€™ve mentioned, may be still to come. :smiley:

For 1.0.0.8, I think this build will be pushed a bit harder in Gladiator but will make it through just fine, just like the S&B soldier builds.

Well, Nov '16 isnā€™t that long ago, especially in development terms.

I figured this might be the case from some players , donā€™t blame you .

Iā€™m playing offline on steam now and donā€™t think I will go online for the foreseeable future . As a self found player I refuse to update and once again screw what few builds I have over .

I will PM you now and then for some op builds ā€œWinkā€ :stuck_out_tongue:

Red text :wink:

Youā€™re right that they mightā€™ve been targeting specific builds, but they also couldā€™ve been targeting all the highest flat -rr to all effects. There are lower -rr effects available to S&B builds that were untouched, such as blessed steel at -18 which is about to get a lot more popular. (Aldritch is only -16, Mark of Dreeg is only -10, and Elemental Storm is elemental-only.) To me it looked like they thought the highest -rr to all were collectively overperforming and needed a pass, and they accidentally missed Agonizing Flames since it was hidden in a skill modifier. :smiley:

At the very least, BWC users are less hurt by the flat -rr change than builds dependent on BSoD for their -rr to all, which include a lot more than S&B builds.

As for the thermite mine nerf, Iā€™m frankly shocked that it took them this long - I had been expecting them to nerf it alongside CoF/Vulnerability in the previous patch, since they were all extremely high performing stackable debuffs. But this one affects all demo builds obviously, not just BWC users.

In the end, we can only speculate on their reasoning unless they explicitly say otherwise.

Red text again :wink: