[1.0.2.1] Vindictive Pain Saboteur

This is a fun little build I drafted up when I saw the Vindictive Flame cooldown reduction on the Ascendant Conduit MI. Level 26/16 Vindictive Flame has a 1.0 second cooldown between each activation, but if the player wears two Ascendant Conduits, Vindictive Flame procs every time the player is hit (-0.5 cooldown for each Ascendant Conduit). Vindictive Flame also has additional skill modifiers in the amulet and medal slot which add more flat fire and lightning damage each time it procs, which means that each proc can deal tens of thousands of damage depending on how much elemental damage, crit damage, and OA the player stacks. This is limited only by how frequently the player is taking damage. Let’s take a look at two potential zero-cooldown Vindictive Flame build:

Saboteur Version
Grimtools: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2d1388V
Video: https://youtu.be/q5yU98FauYQ
(watch https://youtu.be/q5yU98FauYQ?t=43 to see infinite vindictive flame procs in their full glory, which somehow deals damage through Nadra the Shadow’s Blade Barrier)

Purifier Version
Grimtools: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/M2ga6XYZ
Video: https://youtu.be/y2dKg4ATvIc

These are examples of builds without any double greens, which means it’s actually feasible to find the gear for this build without investing hundreds of hours of farming. Obviously double rares would be better, but this build can hold its own in Ultimate just fine as it is.

Purifier vs. Saboteur: What are the main differences?

Despite having substantially more crit damage via Arcane Empowerment and Deadly Aim, I’ve noticed that the clear speed between the two builds is roughly the same. Purifier kills stuff about 25% more quickly, but you lose the ability to manually activate a circuit breaker when needed (Blade Barrier). This means that if Fabius or another enemy activates their own Blade Barrier, you will die if you don’t move IMMEDIATELY thanks to near infinite Vindictive Flame procs being reflected back at you (each instance of reflection triggers a VF proc). Saboteur traverses the map more quickly thanks to Shadow Strike, and your Vindictive Flame hurts more as a Saboteur because you don’t have to sacrifice your medal slot in order to dual wield. As a Purifier, you gain substantially more physical resist OR elemental resist reduction depending on the exclusive aura you choose. Purifiers also have more HP due to Vigor, but you lose some total speed and HP regen due to losing Pneumatic Burst. Inquisitor Seal grants flat damage absorb which, combined with greater HP, makes Purifier tankier overall. Because of the difference in tankiness, Purifier would be better in the Crucible.

Pros:
+Great AoE damage [slightly less as a Purifier]
+Potential for huge damage spikes [about equal to Purifier version]
+Good healing capabilities with transmuted Pneumatic Burst, good HP regen, and acceptable life leech [more than Purifier version]
+Lots of debuffs and resist reduction [even more with Purifier]
+fun and active (why does that sound like a yogurt commercial)
+young and hip, all the kids like flames and vindictiveness

Cons:
-Low HP if using Ulzuin’s set [higher HP as a Purifier]
-Enemies that attack slowly don’t trigger Vindictive Flame as often, which moderately reduces DPS
-sparse DoT means you have to be up close and personal in order to do damage.
-low physical resist (10%). Transmuted BWC mitigates this problem somewhat. [Physical resist can be higher as a Purifier]

Itemization:

Two Ascendant Conduit are mandatory for achieving zero-cooldown Vindictive Flame procs. If you’re lucky enough to find ground damage (enemy blackwater cocktails, aether cocktails, blood pools, etc.), Vindictive Flame will kill anything near you in a couple seconds. Any elemental affixes are good, but “Of the Elements” gives nice attack speed and flat elemental damage bonuses.

I went for 4 pieces of the Ulzuin’s Infernal Avatar because the amulet gives additional flat damage to Vindictive Flame. The helmet also gives a fire resist reduction proc, and since I was already wearing two pieces, I figured I might as well go for all 4. If you want to be a lot tankier at the cost of a lot of DPS, the Justicar Guard set is another option even if you don’t benefit from any of the skill bonuses.

Mythical Chilling Grasp of Hagarrad is so-so, and from my tests it seems to be on par with Mythical Iceskorn Talons. As mentioned above, a Justicar set piece could be worn here as well.

I picked Nemesis for the relic, but Ulzuin’s Pyroclasm performs admirably as well. I just like shadow striking alongside my little buddy. As a Purifier, Ignaffar’s Combustion gives even more elemental resist reduction.

Mythical Ulzuin’s Torment is a must have for the nice damage bonuses, the OA, and the skill bonuses.

Mythical Pyroclasm Mark is taken solely for its Vindictive Flame skill modifier, although the +2 to Vindictive Flame isn’t necessary because you’ll be well over 26/16 anyways. The attack speed and bonuses to max resist are nice as well. You can replace the medal with Mythical Mark of Divinity for more health and regen, but you’ll lose about 25% of your Vindictive Flame damage and you’ll lose some autoattack damage as well. This item will be the first on the chopping block if I end up having trouble surviving. As a Purifier, you need to wear a Mythical Direwolf Crest in order to dual wield. You could wear a dual wielding relic instead, but Demo and Inquisitor relics are just too good to pass up.

Solael-Sect Legguards are for resistances, but you can pick whichever MI pants you’ve found that have the best resistances available. Many of the new nemesis MI pants would be appropriate as well, especially if you roll a combination of resistances and HP.

Mythical Reign of Ice and Fire is where things get interesting. It’s a zero-cooldown proc just like Vindictive Flame, so when your Vindictive Flame procs start piling up, it’s not unusual to see over a dozen Reign of Ice and Fire procs flying all over the place. I included this item mostly for the fun factor and the great damage/crit/OA bonuses, but it can be replaced with a well-rolled Gollus’ ring. The one I use is a mediocre roll, but it gives me important stats regardless.

Finally, Mythical Golemborn Greaves rounds everything off with nice armor, HP, and resistance bonuses. Physical resist is sorely needed, but a well-rolled pair of rare boots with HP would work well here. Mythical Stormtitan Treads also works well here if you’re a Purifier and have decent physical resists through Aura of Conviction.

The components and augments speak for themselves. My focus was on Resistances, OA, HP, and HP regen.

Devotion

I worked towards Blind Sage, grabbed the proc from Leviathan, and grabbed the bonuses (but not the proc) from Attak Seru. It’s possible to get the Attak Seru proc by moving around Eldritch points, but I found the proc to be underwhelming due to half of the damage (Aether) being unused in this build. Behemoth helps a lot with facetanking, but it’s technically optional as the Eldritch points aren’t necessary to reach the tier 3 devotions in this build. Hawk and Wolverine help with OA and DA respectively, and Empty Throne gives much needed resists (especially the stun resist). Scholar’s Light solves your energy issues while giving a nice damage boost, and Rhowan’s Crown is amazing in all respects. Toad is an extremely efficient way to get 6 devotion for 4 points while providing useful stats (the fourth node is underwhelming for this build though). Spider is well-rounded, and Lizard helps with regen while giving you access to Behemoth. Ghoul is another nice option which can be taken instead of Behemoth to provide you with another circuit breaker.

Attributes
If you take the devotion path provided in the link, you’ll get a lot of Spirit bonuses, which means you’ll only have to put 12 points into spirit to wear everything you need. The rest goes into physique.

Haha! Good shit. I had heard about the possibility of this sort of thing now, but have been waiting for a build to be posted.

Do you think Ulzuin’s Wrath is worth it? I’ve always been annoyed by the cc components of the skill, which detract from using VF offensively.

I tried both with and without Ulzuin’s Wrath and didn’t see much difference (the ranged mobs die anyway from other procs or from elemental seekers), but as it stands I like things to die as quickly as possible since I only have 11k HP. If I went for the Justicar version of the build or used Gaze of Empyrion, I’d probably spec out of wrath to maximize the number of vindictive flame procs though.

Fantastic! Good to see VF getting some love. I’ve always enjoyed the skill and it great to see it being used offensively like this.

Nice and innovative build! That’s the kind of creativity I wanna see with the new skill modifiers :slight_smile:

Have you tried similiar setup with other class combos with Demo? I think it would work great with Inquis for example.

Inquisitor would be really good too, but the playstyle would be quite different. You’d be less mobile, attack slower, be lacking big Execution damage spikes, and your Firestrike doesn’t hit as hard (lethal assault is really good), but you’d have about 1.5k more HP, DoTs wouldn’t hurt as much due to the Inquisitor Seal, you’d crit harder, and you’d have more physical resistance (or elemental resist reduction depending on which exclusive aura you take). Overall clear speed would likely be lower due to the inability to shadow strike for fast movement, but bosses would go down more quickly once Deadly Aim procs and you’ll probably have to kite less.

I’ll have to cheat a level 100 character with identical gear to see how they compare.

I would sugegst going with Ignaffar’s relic or Korvaak’s for the “fire-ss” skill, that would fix the mobility problem.

I really like the way this build looks and was wondering if it’s possible to make this slightly more dot oriented with frostburn aoe and burn on fire strike.

I’m sure it’s possible, but since you’ll be face-to-face with enemies 90% of the time for the vindictive flame procs, I think it’s more efficient to just hit enemies in the face with flat damage and lifesteal from it. DoT builds don’t have much reason to be in close proximity to enemies if they don’t have to be, and Vindictive Flame builds don’t have much reason to be far away from enemies if they don’t have to be.

Ahh I see, I’ve just been trying to theorycraft a cold/fire (or possibly tri-element)build with saboteur that mostly relies on dots such as frostburn lately. Really like the idea of being a melee dot class opposed to a caster :frowning:

I disagree that that should be the case, melee DOT would work just fine, it’s in fact a faster way of dealing damage, opposed to just hitting
How abour phys bleed builds, they are usually melee right?
Elemental melee sounds a bit niche to me, but isn’t grim dawn a game that offers a lot of room to be creative with your build?
Just theorycraft your idea and keep in mind what really matters: defenses including full res and DPS

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all of vindictive flame’s damage is flat though, so gearing for DoTs seems like a waste. just my opinion though

I don’t think he was discrediting your build or anything, just responding to my reply since I was mentioning theory crafting my build that’s fire/cold based. I already know it’s sub optimal with those stats, but I just like the though of aoe frostburn with single target firestrike dps, so I’ve been browsing saboteur and infiltrator threads for more ideas. :stuck_out_tongue:

This looks pretty cool Snazz.

I honestly hadn’t even considered using two of them. That’s amazing. Speaking of Purifier versions, though, this is what I am hoping to build once my farmer is up and running:

http://www.grimtools.com/calc/w26MG7bN

Although now that I’ve seen this thread I have to reconsider everything.

Yeah I’m excited about the purifier options too. If I find something even better I’ll add it to the original post. There was one dude a while ago that made a bunch of different Mindwarp aether builds and I’m inspired to do the same for this topic and make various zero-cooldown vindictive flame builds to choose from.

I know it might sound suicidal but what about going pyromancer with Bloody Pox + Fevered Rage ? I guess you would have to build more tanky and propably use every item that adds dmg to Vindictive Flame and on top of that it’s pretty useless against ranged enemies and sacrifice a slot for item allowing dual wield and you have no shield , but you have sigil ,raven heal + ele dmg aura, and Blood of Dreeg + Vindictive flame both provide nice health regen.

O_O

Nice work!

Might have to equip my VF focused commando with one of those conduits then. The right one would double the dps output of VF, albeit at the loss of +1 all demo skills. It already clears trash like crazy with VF+UW fully maxed out though, with FS and Grenado to deal with more meaty enemies, but does suffer a bit from gear choices having left some holes resistances wise.

Tested out a Purifier version and added the details to the main post. Long story short, Purifier is tankier and crits harder, but clearspeed is about the same due to the difference in mobility and the loss of either your relic or medal in order to gain the ability to dual wield.

As a lover of absurd and memerific builds I am in love with this idea. Challenge accepted :smiley: