[1.0.3.2] The Great Deceiver (no MI, dw, cdr, 30min gladiator)

First, where did you get the info about 0,5% drop chance?
Second, calculations. Let’s agree with this 0,5% drop chance, just to have something to work with. The propability of getting the items always stays 0,5% no matter how many runs you’ve already done.
If we have 1% chance to get the item then to hit 100% we must make 100 runs, it’s as simple as that. So it would be 200 runs for 1 item, because our chance is only 0,5%. So it is 400 runs for 2 weapons. You said 12 runs per hour, 400/12=33,33 hours.
We need 400 runs in average to get these 2 wepons, that is approximately 33 hours.

Now let’s have some math on MI, shall we? Pants, for example. There are 150 prefixes and 216 suffixes for green, according to grimtools. We must divide each by 6 because there are 6 levels of each unique prefix/suffix (they only have higher numbers because of higher level). So, 25 unique prefixes and 36 unique suffixes.
These are only greens, we also have yellows! 135 prefixes, 467 suffixes, 8 levels, so 17 unique prefixes and 58 unique affixes
So the probability of having one exact combination that you need (for example Stonehide of Kings) is 1/[(25+17)*(36+58)]=0,000253. It is 0,0253%!

If we divide 0,5% into 0,0253% we get 19,74.
Conclusion: it is 20 times easier to get one of these weapons than real good green MI pants.
In terms of time, let’s say we are farming Solael, so we know exactly where to farm and so we are also able to make 12 runs per hour (which is totally not possible if we need pants from Nemesis).
(25+17)*(36+58)=3948, this is the average number of tries. 3948/12=329 hours.

I claim that 33 hours for 2 weapons is totally better than 329 hours for one single pants.

P.S.: about your calculations, why they are different. They are made for 99,99% chance for drop and for real world that means your are the least luckiest person on the planet and got the item only on your last mathematically possible try.
Mine are average which is totally better for real world.

If we have 1% chance to get the item then to hit 100% we must make 100 runs, it’s as simple as that. So it would be 200 runs for 1 item, because our chance is only 0,5%. So it is 400 runs for 2 weapons. You said 12 runs per hour, 400/12=33,33 hours.
We need 400 runs in average to get these 2 wepons, that is approximately 33 hours.

This math is wrong, plain and simple.

Simple explanation:
Take a six-sided dice, roll it 6 times. You will surely have a 6 with this throws? Nope.

These are only greens, we also have yellows! 135 prefixes, 467 suffixes, 8 levels, so 17 unique prefixes and 58 unique affixes
So the probability of having one exact combination that you need (for example Stonehide of Kings) is 1/[(25+17)*(36+58)]=0,000253. It is 0,0253%!

Might be right (too lazy to confirm it myself, but I think it´s right) but as I said: With a green MI you don´t need an exact combination, you need only a good to decent one without breaking the build. You don´t rely on this exact combination, this build does.

As I said before, your maths for the scepters is wrong so the rest can´t be either.

Edit:

P.S.: about your calculations, why they are different. They are made for 99,99% chance for drop and for real world that means your are the least luckiest person on the planet and got the item only on your last mathematically possible try.
Mine are average which is totally better for real world.

This is statistically no average. :wink:

And I have to calculate with this numbers. Sure, with real luck I can have both scepters within 10 minutes. 2 runs, 2 drops. Like I got Blueprints of Covenant of the Three and Eldritch Gaze: 3 Kills, 2 Drops.

But this are no reliable numbers. Another person will have to farm Sentinel a little bit longer.

Of course not. My point is that ON AVERAGE it will be 6 throws, if we take example with dice.
One person gets both weapons in 10 runs, another one in 50, someone will require 1000 runs.
And only the unluckiest one will require 2400 runs! This is it, the guaranteed drop.
But THE AVERAGE person will only need 400.
This is theory of chances. 100% probability is not needed in this case, we are in real world after all.
I suggest you to ask you friend again, about the average result, not the guaranteed one.

There is no guaranteed dropchance. And how should an average bei calculated, that makes no sense. On average one 6 in 6 dicethrows? I don’t think so.

Which samplesize do you use to calculate an average?

Is the chance really 0.5%? When I was looking in the DBR it looked like it was a 25% chance to equip something in the slot and a 5% chance for that to be the item, so it’d actually .25 *.05 = 0.0125 , or 1.25%. Which is still a really low chance.

No guaranteed, so your friend calculated the 99,99% probability.


“Assuming a non-zero probability, it is true that conducting more trials increases the overall likelihood of the desired outcome. However, there is no particular number of trials that guarantees that outcome; rather, the probability that it will already have occurred approaches but never quite reaches 100%.”

This is Probability theory. To achieve more probability you require significant more tries. But it is not how it will affect an average person, one of many. 90% of people will have average result.
For your example - one 6 in 6 dicethrows, but the samplesize must be big enough, I’d say at least 1000 tries.
90% of people farming the weapons will need close to 400 runs, I’d say 350-450, and only 10% will be very lucky or very unlucky.
Just ask your mathematician friend about the averages.

He is not the first one who is talking about the 0,5% chance. I have absolutely no idea where they found this number.

They both sound really low. Are people really doing 200+ runs to find a single MI? I’d imagine people would just give up…
At worst, in the database, it’s 1.25% which would be a little less than 100 runs on average.

Just rechecked - I think I checked before patching. It’s 5% now, but I think it was 1.25% before patch 4.0, though my memory is a little hazy.

.25 *.2 = .05

I don’t understand anything on your image, but if they indeed raised drop chance to 5% that’s really great news.
3,3 hours of farming instead of 33 is no joke!

sigh

Merry Christmas…but the math is still wrong.

But believe what you want, I would only start this build if I got the scepters from anywhere legit. Farming them would be a pain.

Merry Christmas to you too :slight_smile:
My math is right.

P.S.: If anyone is interested in Deceivers check this build:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66459
He is a glass cannon and is wrapped in green MIs, but he is able to do gladiator 100-159.

100% of builds able to do gladiator 150-170. Another question how many attempts they need for it :wink:

If you can do it with a defiler I’ll make a statue of you in my bathroom.

Im sure that Valgur vitality defiler can make it with buffs with good sucsess rate.

Nice trolling there, but no they are not. Most builds in this game are not even able to clear 150.

I have a defiler that can farm 100-150 (with buffs). Unfortunately, I highly doubt it can go any further.

No trolling here. ArchHeretic’s build you offered at your previous comment - just one lucky try and it doesn’t mean build is Gladiator viable.

Haven’t tried it myself. I just liked the fact that it is the second deceiver on the forum that has proof of clearing gladiator. If he is inconsistent than mine is definitely better.

You can’t be serious about every build having a chance in 150-170. I’m not even talking about official build compendiums. Take any dw melee from my compilation - they all can farm 100-150, but have zero chance against waves 160 and 170 with a few AoM nemesis. I even died with DoubleBlitz commando tank with permanent overguard, so had to switch to super defensive devotions.

2300 DA, 0% life steal, 9 active consumables, 2 moments with >10% HP. But he has a proof…

If nobody care about max points and time… just now farm 100 - 150 no big problem longer?

Thats just show that skill and luck mean moar that stats :roll:

You forgot a Macro Recorder…

… because no amount of skill can give you 13 extra fingers