Yeah, -1 on nerfing a skill just because a Set overperforms.
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Especially if that skill got good only a few days ago…
Cyclone set has been problematic for a while, it is one of the most ridiculously synergistic set in the entire game. Cinderglove having so many ridiculous stat with fire -> lightning conversion is just cherry on top. Tweak the set plz not the skills.
This set was op on basically anything it supported.
Lightning damage on mines on cyclone’s set at present patch are already cutted by half - from 200 to 100/second
But if you don’t nerf the dmg bonus, what would you nerf? The strongest buff Cyclone gives to the Thermites is obviously the increased summon limit, but that part is also the coolest (style&gameplaywise) – so I would probably prefer that one to stay over almost anything else (with the exception of EoR mods)…
Well, my Cyclone SB still does Crucible in 5:40, so…
Since I only really have experience with the SB variant, I’d love to know how other Cyclone builds do now in 1.1.4.1 (especially Elementalist & Sorcerer, but Archon should definitely be in there, too). Is the set still broken across the whole board? Or only on Shieldbreakers?
This is what I think, at least in regards to the Shielbreaker variant, to be the biggest issue with Cyclone atm:
It’s the massive damage conversion happening everywhere on the side, with fire>lightning as the biggest factor in the build’s performance. Being able to utilize the full potential of as much as three great offensive skills from the Demolitionist’s tree (Thermite Mines, Canister Bomb & BWC) without any drawback might just be too much.
Possible solution:
- Remove the fire>lightning conversion on either M. Dawnshard Hauberk or Cindertouch.
Benefits: according to my tests (Cyclone SB with 82% fire>lightning conversion), the build loses about 30 seconds of Crucible clear time just with this change.
Downside: I have no idea what other builds these items might support, and thus what this change could break*. Input? Could the damages to other builds be mitigated by e.g. adding skill-specific modifiers to compensate for this?
*(I also haven’t tested any setups including the Stormfire Sapphire amulet; but those would lose a ton of survivability in addition to some damage, since it would force a rearrangement of a few other gear slots, so I’m not sure that’s even an option. I will try to play around with it a little though this week.)
Dude, please, just stop with this nerf fiesta. Shieldbreakers are currently very strong. Basically, any elemental Demolitionist supported by synergetic class is very strong right now. There are so many things that are clicking in your build besides the conversion and Cyclone set:
- The amount of %Damage/OA/Crit damage you can amass on your build
- Passive RR + instant RR from new Mines (not in your build tho)
- Lightning devotion map still being very strong
- Eye of Reckoning is still hella strong. I have recently updated Fire Paladin for 1.1.4.1 and spinning still breaks the game
- Blast Shield + Resilience + Ascension + damage reduction from Soulfire
This spec is just oozing with synergy. And it’s all right.
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Are you kidding?
The Cyclone set, the wind devils, the mines have been nerfed already all the way.
And I remind you, there’re also Vindicators and (poor) Elementalists, for whom (I mean the latter ones) Cyclone is almost the only playable set.
What do you actually want? Fairly, I see for the first time that somebody complains his build is op.
As @mad_lee has mentioned, there’s a plenty of factors that make build synergetic and strong, so by nerfing the skills and the set you’re just digging a grave to them (which is also synergetic in some ways with constant mobs’ buffing and difficulty rising).
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Sigh*, not again.
Please don’t change these items! They are needed elsewhere as well. Like Lee said currently Demo elemental casters are the meta. And Cyclone is strong set and Shieldbreaker is one of the most synergetic classes. So it should be strong, no excuses there!
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Damn, guys, calm down… your input was exactly why I created this thread, after all!
So basically what you are saying is that it’s the Thermite Mines that should get toned down a little?
Have you updated your Cyclone/Lightning version of the build, as well? Because – funny enough – to me, EoR actually feels weaker with the dedicated set, as opposed to without it…
More EoR-fucused Cyclone SB setups lost about 90 seconds of cruci clear time in comparison to the full conversion BWC/Canister one (which is why I suggested the conversion removal).
We’re saying: plz, leave the set as it is now. It has already got its bunch of nerfes.
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Conversion in cindertouch is beautiful, don’t omit it please. It used in a lot of wacky build and specs, omit it to just cater for cyclone is absurd.
On the other hand, conversion on dawnshard armor is actually not quite useful. If that conversion is not there, I can actually use it for hellborne build because it provide fire retal. But other ppl use it for another reason and they need that conversion, so don’t just change it.
Also, play another item/set/mastery. Don’t waste your time thinking how to nerf things pls. You make this like a very in urgent issues while it’s not. 5:40 with banner is a pretty normal thing for a top tier set.
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That shouldn’t be.
But I agree. Cindertouch is best left alone. If you want to hurt Cyclone, target the set itself or the skills it relies on, and then use other items to buff those skills up as appropriate if the need arises.
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No. We are saying it’s quite a few things clicking and working together and creating a strong synergetic spec. Strong synergetic build is much more than the sum of all the parts that make it strong.
Nope, and I don’t want to touch it. As I said in the other thread those constant balance changes are making the game frustrating for me. The motivation for creating new builds is also gone, I have created so many top-tier really great builds that got nerfed it’s really no fun to create anymore. And I feel responsible for ruining fun for players who get their average normal non-minmaxed specs nerfed based on my guides.
Not for Zantai, so expect nerfs regardless if people talk about it or not.
But what if that’s what I enjoy? 
But sub-6min builds are still falling into the (if not totally) broken category according to Crate’s standards, right?
Yes, this possibility is why I hesitated with suggesting the change. But what if we added some other whacky stat to the Hauberk, like a 10-15% atk speed bonus only for people that use offhands? That might be fun 
So you’re saying that builds like this can’t be nerfed because they are synergystic? I mean, you have to get in there somewhere if you want to reduce its performance, and a single part of an admittedly greater sum might just be enough in my opinion 
Yeah, that sucks… But this is actually a big part of why I created this thread: I want to basically get ahead of the nerfs & ensure that they don’t completely break anything.
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer, right? 
Yeah, while he always deny that all this “balancing” never revolve around cruci.
All this bullshit. Maybe I need to stop wasting time posting builds here after all.
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I mean, I can’t speak for everyone on the forums, but before I started posting here actively a lot of the builds I made myself were inspired by some kind of build on here – and it really didn’t matter if the source build was nerfed to the ground already, because you can always recycle some, if not many of the great ideas posted there. Especially from creative builds like yours
I don’t know what rock you’ve been living under, but this hasn’t been the case for many months now. Cruci does impact game balance. Period, end of discussion. This is something I’m virulently unhappy about, but it is a fact nonetheless.