The short version: the Cyclone set profited a little too much from the recent Demo/Thermite Mine changes.
And Canister Bomb ist still a little too strong.
Suggested change nr. 1: remove 5-7% of the RR the set gives to the mines and/or reduce their flat dmg boni (I trust you with the specific amount here – just don’t kill the build completely, please. It’s a ton of fun).
unless...
This suggestion would change should an increasing number of Demo builds start to overperform, in which case the base RR of the Mines should be the more reasonable target than the set bonus.
Suggested change nr. 2: tone down Canister Bomb even more (Shoot2033’s Ulzuin sorc looks to still be too strong as well – with <5min cruci clears – though I have no personal experience with his build(s)).
Ok, i reveal secret “Why canister can do <5min cruc”. So , yes, problem with Canister Bomb , but not as skill itself. The main problem when you attach Eldritch Fire on Canister. I.e Eldritch Fire don’t have CD on proc and with ~100% chance activation both with explosion and splinters, you can see , why this annihilates all screen in few seconds. Solution : restrict Eldrich Fire on Bomb or make standart chance actication.
P.S. Canister Bomb as skill not so OP, as you many think)
Yes, i think, devotion procs shouldnt have 0 CD. It’s just too powerful sometimes, when a skill with CD (which leads to high chance to activate) hits multiple times and has AoE (just like Canister Bomb). Just add small CD (0.5 sec or so) to ALL devotion procs, that’s it.
This is more obvious when you do lightning instead of fire canister, and lightning doesn’t have a 0 cd devotion. I don’t think Eldritch fire should be changed just because of a single instance of it being OP. Other builds can’t do the same thing.
Also, Cinder’s build has EoR, with the buffed thermites it’s guaranteed to be strong. Nothing wrong with that.
Tbf, the thermite aspect of cyclone got nerfed this patch too. And it’s not like thermites alone make builds. It’s still a supplementary damage source even at 26/16.
You might be right, I never really tested it in a vacuum, just observed its effect on clear speeds as ‘add-on’.
In that case, its probably just the mines that should get nerfed; EoR really isn’t the strongest skill in my build (even though it technically is the main focus of the Cyclone set!).
Dmg-wise, it only slightly surpasses the ~12% CDR of x1’s ThermoElectritian, and even that is mainly due to its power as a devotion proccer (30+seconds faster clear times just with Flame Torrent on EoR).
I’m just not sure how much of the crazy mine dmg comes from the buffed base skill and how much comes from the Cyclone pieces. I don’t want a world where every Demo build either has to use Cyclone Effigy or suffer mediocricy
Maybe the +3 summon limit should be moved to a different set piece/maybe even the set bonus? That could allow Crate to keep the base skill as is and also have a Cyclone SB that still has a stong focus on the Mines (the additionall RR/flat boni would still have to be nerfed of course).
Cyclone set has been problematic for a while, it is one of the most ridiculously synergistic set in the entire game. Cinderglove having so many ridiculous stat with fire -> lightning conversion is just cherry on top. Tweak the set plz not the skills.
This set was op on basically anything it supported.
But if you don’t nerf the dmg bonus, what would you nerf? The strongest buff Cyclone gives to the Thermites is obviously the increased summon limit, but that part is also the coolest (style&gameplaywise) – so I would probably prefer that one to stay over almost anything else (with the exception of EoR mods)…
Since I only really have experience with the SB variant, I’d love to know how other Cyclone builds do now in 1.1.4.1 (especially Elementalist & Sorcerer, but Archon should definitely be in there, too). Is the set still broken across the whole board? Or only on Shieldbreakers?
This is what I think, at least in regards to the Shielbreaker variant, to be the biggest issue with Cyclone atm:
It’s the massive damage conversion happening everywhere on the side, with fire>lightning as the biggest factor in the build’s performance. Being able to utilize the full potential of as much as three great offensive skills from the Demolitionist’s tree (Thermite Mines, Canister Bomb & BWC) without any drawback might just be too much.
Possible solution:
Remove the fire>lightning conversion on either M. Dawnshard Hauberk or Cindertouch.
Benefits: according to my tests (Cyclone SB with 82% fire>lightning conversion), the build loses about 30 seconds of Crucible clear time just with this change.
Downside: I have no idea what other builds these items might support, and thus what this change could break*. Input? Could the damages to other builds be mitigated by e.g. adding skill-specific modifiers to compensate for this?
*(I also haven’t tested any setups including the Stormfire Sapphire amulet; but those would lose a ton of survivability in addition to some damage, since it would force a rearrangement of a few other gear slots, so I’m not sure that’s even an option. I will try to play around with it a little though this week.)
Dude, please, just stop with this nerf fiesta. Shieldbreakers are currently very strong. Basically, any elemental Demolitionist supported by synergetic class is very strong right now. There are so many things that are clicking in your build besides the conversion and Cyclone set:
The amount of %Damage/OA/Crit damage you can amass on your build
Passive RR + instant RR from new Mines (not in your build tho)
Lightning devotion map still being very strong
Eye of Reckoning is still hella strong. I have recently updated Fire Paladin for 1.1.4.1 and spinning still breaks the game
Are you kidding?
The Cyclone set, the wind devils, the mines have been nerfed already all the way.
And I remind you, there’re also Vindicators and (poor) Elementalists, for whom (I mean the latter ones) Cyclone is almost the only playable set.
What do you actually want? Fairly, I see for the first time that somebody complains his build is op.
As @mad_lee has mentioned, there’s a plenty of factors that make build synergetic and strong, so by nerfing the skills and the set you’re just digging a grave to them (which is also synergetic in some ways with constant mobs’ buffing and difficulty rising).
Please don’t change these items! They are needed elsewhere as well. Like Lee said currently Demo elemental casters are the meta. And Cyclone is strong set and Shieldbreaker is one of the most synergetic classes. So it should be strong, no excuses there!
Damn, guys, calm down… your input was exactly why I created this thread, after all!
So basically what you are saying is that it’s the Thermite Mines that should get toned down a little?
Have you updated your Cyclone/Lightning version of the build, as well? Because – funny enough – to me, EoR actually feels weaker with the dedicated set, as opposed to without it…
More EoR-fucused Cyclone SB setups lost about 90 seconds of cruci clear time in comparison to the full conversion BWC/Canister one (which is why I suggested the conversion removal).
