This would make the beacon as irrelevant as the other beacons are.
Really, i thought rr was no all that amazing on beacons 
It depends what is given in return. Iâm starting to get the feeling that all arguments aside the cheapness of this big buff is just too good to let go and no one is willing to spend up to T3 to get power. Beacons are like fast good 
Mostly yes, but some of them become blended and a lot of build performances are bloated.
Also on piloting. Crucible has an ebb and flow of spawns programmed into it. Even if aggro was fixed, mobs still wouldnât charge at you the way they do with Beacons. Atm 4x beacons 80% of piloting = lurk around mid map and show your bum at the mobs
Itâs again, how I feel about this style of play. Iâve tried them before they became popular on forum and it didnât feel like Grim dawn to me but like tower defense or dota in a sense maybe you can understand what iâm getting at. I canât find better analogies at the moment
I also think Azraaka might be best for clear times, and this is another thing Belgo can afford while Cadence cannot.
Although i have to say that your particular setup is full stop loaded with damage giving up too many layers of defense. I myself like to make risky setups but one thing i wouldnât ever do to a melee build is leave it with 5% adcth.
Disagree. In AoE-centric game beacons help to breach the gap between melee and casters. You still have to navigate the perfect route to minimize the clear time.
That would make them obsolete. âTame the spreadâ means less mobs touched = less aggro. So no aggro, no damage, no RR? Nice.
You sound like you wanna remove the thing you donât like from the game altogether. Luckily thatâs not how balancing goes.
By the same amount. Vanguard also bloats the performance. By lesser amount. So again, whatâs your point?
80%? Do you really think that? In that case how come people show different results on the same builds?
Hatred is blinding indeed.
Hatred is a strong word. I jsut donât take those runs seriosly.
You defend what you like and I understand that. Just as I defend GD without things like Beacons becoming a second player of sorts that dilute the experience.
Most of what I said related to RR which no Cruci buffs should have or SR. Itâs just too much of a luxury in this game. They should only come from the player devos or gearâŚthere is so much of it as is and still you can never have enough of it
And the nerfs iâd like it to have, does not mean it wouldnât be backed up by some kind of changes in the way beacons work.
i donât want to KILL beacons or elemental towers in general. I just want to change how storm beacons work. Both me and val gave feedback on inferno beacon to be buffed in how it works and what it does. So iâm not all Vanguard or nothingâŚsame for Cold beaconsâŚanyone using those?
Yes but itâs just sooo much easier. opinions here will be divided regardless. Ther are other very good Crucible builders that feel as I do ( no not testers ) and are kind of saddened on how much so many other good players seem to like the state of crucible and how itâs played.
i for one, because of all this, am very tempted to go JoV mode on Crucible and do naked only, aside from SR
Edit: i kind of understand why he was doing this now and why way back when the whole DA meta was changed he said that Crucible is becoming a bit too easy. Itâs totally arbitrary to use no buffs, or to use only certain buffs. In the end naked play is the ultimate equalizer where there is nothing but your build to show what it can do
More like dont know any better and roll with whats given. If you ask me i would make Crucible completely different starting with the addition of real boss waves - fights against single miniCelestial
Tbh i would like to see buffs and banners removed and tributes to be the currency for loot of some kind
As you can see we arent so different in our preferences. But we have to play the game we have now.
And âtake seriouslyâ? Please. What of this is serious anyway?
I like that idea. But i guess they are there for new players as well, to aid them.
Seriously I meant in terms of judging the performance of a build, putting aside the rng of mutators and spawns. In my mind the more your run comes from the power of you char alone, the better
So far into the game. Buffs will remain and so will towers. Itâs up to us how we juggle them
Clear times, sure, but consistency will definitely drop. For example my Belgo setup does not benefit from Vitality res on Azrakaa at all, so changing to Azrakaa from Serenity will not only leave the build with a bit weaker everything (wps, rr, either Fighting Spirit or War Cry would have to go) but will also leave a 50% effective res shaped hole in the defenses. Restless remains would have to go as well probably.
Your setup is basically unkillable and honestly i cant remember too many effective procs from Serenity. Maybe additional dmg will be enough to compensate the defense loss. I will test it with Azraaka on a new laptop.
With 3+1 as well, for those picky noblemen disgusted by the towers.
Well that what I was going for. And itâs super damaging as it is, just lacks decent aoe. And I am afraid that that consistency drop that comes with losing ~10 seconds of the time with Azrakaa is not worth it all.
Azraaka is not just extra 5-10 secs off the timer. I remember when i tried the relic for the first time back in the summer. It was the first legit purple relic i crafted. The freedom it gives to the character when going through MC or SR canât be denied. And if the char remains sturdy, the swap would be justified regardless of the gamemode.
Well, I might test it tomorrow then. Not sure what âfreedomâ you are talking about tho, the physical damage on the proc is not converted, how strong can these sand devils really be?
The freedom as in 5 janitors clearing up all the annoyance around you. Flat phys is enough to overcome the trash armor and still do a lot of dmg together with pierce and bleed. It was extra helpful with a 2H Cadence build.
edit: one whirlwind has about 20k dps against the weaker enemies
Maybe the freedom of not having to chase after every trash.
Ignoring the phys, more or less like softcapped Blade Spirits without the conversion. Not much but always something.
Sorry to abduct the topic but thereâs discussion inside the discussion.
I have done naked Crucible runs before and itâs fun challenge but only few builds can do it reliable.
Real Crucible experience is using buffs and/or banners. Since youâre surrounded by multiple of hardest hitting monsters in the game you need some extra support. Plus itâs a reward system, with all these tributes.
How you spend this tributes exactly is irrelevant, itâs up to player to decide. But Beacons are not a cheat. They are put there by Z. In late AoM era Vanguard were master of buffs, back then the key was having enough AoE to clear trash and single target damage to kill nemesis in 3 seconds. Now situation is different. You need diverse and huge AoE to be top build, with only few exceptions. Some AoE builds also boosts high single target damage like AAR, giving you pierce through but also mega single target hit. Only you need AoE proc that can kill trash mobs sideways.
So whatâs my point? Beacons are fitting in current Crucible meta. Butchering them is not the correct response to the situation. In FG there are new dangerous enemies, more health to the mobs, you need to change the way you build. And Beacons help with that.
About Azraaka relic, I like the proc and for Spite BM improved the time but here build is DW and Belgo is natural fit.
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I believe that, but the problem of patching 50% effective res lost from Serenity still stands.
i specifically said they are not, just that some of them are extremely cheesy.
And real crucible experience seems to be whatever the community decides it is
4 buffs and bannerâŚthen 3 buffs and banner, then 4 buffs 4 banners with loads of cash leftâŚetc.
or no buff no banner, there are reasons to do or not do any of these depending on how you look at things
It actually came from our builders chat (which you left 
). Itâs whatâs most effective and at the same time cost-efficient. Sure, you end up being one tribute short after three or four runs with 4 blessings and 3 level one Storm Beacons and you have to make a âkindergarden runâ from wave 1 to 10 once in a while. But itâs still worth it because 4+3 clears are more consistent (and fun) than 3+1 ones.
Never would have thought otherwise.
âŚalthough the beacon thing ( iâll call it bacon 
! ) was before that and i honestly thought you would poke fun at it
I was holding on to 3+1 till I couldnât hold no more. 4+3 showed better results even on the builds with instant flat RR (like N&O Sabo or Krieg Battle Mage or Belgo or builds that use BWC or Flashbang with Flashbang Conduit).
I played a bit more with Vanguard and actually i withdraw what i said about it doesnât feel much slower.
Unless in some miraculous way new laptop solves aggro issues for me i will stick to beacons with NO RR on them whatsoever.
Having to run after every. single. fucking. idiot who decided not to be aggroed at the start of the wave⌠This just feels exceptionally awful gameplay. Exceptionally awful.
I just had a run where i was forced to come to the right buttom corner to fight Kuba. KUBA was stuck in the spawn.
Adding Azraaka didnât help because the winds donât go that far, i still have to travel a lot.
I predict beacon meta for melee is not going anywhere soon.