Intro
This is the ongoing story of Biggs & Wedge, two cranky old vets who bicker over who’s got the best grenado swag (and who may or may not have wandered into Cairn from another reality).
Back in the 1.2.1.6 days, Biggs and his lightning gear had the advantage but since then there’s been a whirlwind of nerfs, buffs, and a whole DLC full of new gear to explore. Now that the smoke has settled a bit, Wedge has emerged as a retal beast. But Biggs isn’t going down without a (mostly friendly) fight and several improvements were made to improve the lightning kit as well.
In addition, the new Ulzuin’s Chosen charge mechanics introduced with the DLC have been a real boon to the playstyle and when you put everything together, it’s a great time to be a bomber.
Wedge
Fire Grenado with Infernal Brimstone + Cinderborn set
*Craft helm for slow resist. Serenity bonus for lowest resist
Download:
_Wedge.zip (1.1 MB)
Old: Grimtools
Along with the general power creep of new mechanics and Ascended bonuses, several more things transpired to take the fire version to the next level. With the arrival of FoA, the game finally has a proper fire retaliation set in the Cinderborn and the 3 piece bonuses are a big upgrade. The Infernal Brimstone received a nice buff and the new Hellfury Band is also a great addition.
Aside from gear, I retooled skill points for more Fighting Spirit focus and went with a slightly different devotion map.
Videos
*All recorded without TDM pots
SR 30-31 (3:55)
Port Valbury 5x ashes clear
vs Ravager (37 sec)
vs Callagadra (45 sec)
vs Giga Avatar (1:24)
Old vids:
Biggs
Skyfire Lightning Grenado + Full Dawnbreaker Set
*Craft helm for slow resist. Serenity bonus for lowest resist
Download:
_Biggs.zip (1.2 MB)
Old: Grimtools
Unfortunately for poor old Biggs, the nerfing of the Top 20 Warder in Patch 1.3.1.0 caused him to catch some strays and the Dawnseeker’s Light (dawnbreaker) set isn’t quite as powerful as it once was. However, I think I managed to close the gap as best I could and this is now much improved over the original spec. I made a last minute devotion change to taking Targo’s Hammer which I think works well now with the Terrobullum potion mod.
The build still hits hard and it’s really satisfying to charge into a mob and reduce them to ash while shrugging off blows.
Videos
*All recorded without TDM pots
SR 30-31 (4:19)
Steps of Torment 5x ashes clear
vs Ravager (52 sec)
vs Callagadra (55 sec)
vs Giga Avatar (2:37)
Old vids:
Gear
I think the gear on both builds is pretty locked in for now but I’ll go over a few other things I’ve tried.
I’ve been asked a couple times about using full Cinderborn on the fire build, or going Hellborne instead. Full Cinderborn is “fine” but it’s much better suited for Archons or Elementalists. The Brimstone is just an absolute beast now and outclasses Gavel + shield combos for Commando. Likewise, Hellborne isn’t that great here. You lose a lot of tankiness, mobility and damage with no gain. If you really want the rifle aesthetic, you’d be better off to use the new Adversary and go non-retal.
For the lightning build, the new Widowspine has excellent bonuses but I didn’t test it extensively against the full set. In previous versions I also tried out Scion of Burning Vengeance gun but my opinion on it hasn’t changed. You get a much punchier grenade but the mobility + AoE loss mostly cancels that out, imo.
Potion Setups
For general farming Terrobullum + Ventorus / Menhirus + Phillom. I don’t really care for the TDM pots but both builds can handle them if you want to use them.
I’ve been playing around with Expulsium in SR runs. I think it helps during multi-boss pulls.
Superbosses are going to require at least one of the energy pots. Ravager needs both Navitos to counter the drain.
Jewelry Affixes
In these updated specs I’ve gone for 2x “Of the Gildam Arcanum” suffixes. These don’t make or break the build but I would suggest getting two if you can because the unique CDR modifier is very strong for retaliation builds in general as they affect devotion proc resets. More importantly here, the CDR of Gildam stacks multiplicatively with the Ulzuin’s Chosen skill modifier, allowing for a higher reset chance than what is shown on the skill tooltip.
For example, Wedge has an 18/10 Ulzuin’s Chosen which is 38% chance of 100% CDR. With the 2x Gildams, this can be expressed as:
(1 - 0.38) x (1 - 0.05) x (1 - 0.05) = 0.559 or about 44% chance of 100% Skill CDR. So that’s 6% extra chance of 100% reset on every grenado and canister bomb throw (I’m not much of a math guy so please skewer me if this formula is not correct).
Stun and Slow resists are low on both builds so to improve that, shoot for 1x “Consecrated” and “Thunderstruck” if you can. Consecrated is more likely to roll on Gollus rings and Thunderstruck on Kymon’s Badge. “Lich’s” prefix also works and rolls often on Gollus.
Ascended Bonuses
I think these are the optimal bonuses to shoot for on your gear. Both builds are already fairly tanky so I think you can lean more into the offensive bonuses.
Weapon + Shield
Offensive: Crit + OA :: OA + %Retal
Defensive: Blast Shield extend when hit
Jewelry + Belt
Crit + OA
Fighting Spirit extend (1x is sufficient)
2% OA to VF
Flat OA
Counter Strike
Armors
400 health
Health + OA
2% OA to VF
Flat OA
AD + OA + %Retal
Blast Shield extend when hit
Leveling & Budget End Game Setup
A little build history: initially this was only one character and I got tired of swapping out gear sets and decided to level a second Commando to make it easier. Then I gave them some backstory for a bit of roleplay flavor. So this was the leveling process at the time for what would become the second build (Wedge).
Instead of doing another generic Forcewave toon, I decided to level as retaliation focused. Typically this isn’t the optimal way to level since retal gear is sparse towards the beginning of the game but it is absolutely achievable, if you don’t mind things going a little slower. With a Commando, this basically boils down to doing most of your early game damage by dumping points into Vindictive Flame and supporting it with Thermite Mines.
Here are some Grimtools snapshots at various points throughout. I’m not presenting this as a beginner’s guide though, because I don’t think there’s an absolute “right way” to go about this.
Level 20 snapshot :Defeated Warden Krieg
Level 35 snapshot :Defeated Abomination
Level 48 snapshot :Defeated Loghorrean
Level 62 snapshot :Started Ultimate difficulty (skipped Elite completely)
Level 75 snapshot :Cruising through Ultimate, working on various Faction reputation
At start I rushed to Vindictive Flame, equipped Fireblast skill from Searing Ember component and put a couple points in Grenado. This was enough to clear A1 and well into A2 until I could pick up a Martin’s Crest medal. The added fire damage modifier for thermite mines is pretty strong for early game.
After level 35, I went into Port Valbury far enough to pick up the Conflagration relic blueprint from the vendor. In retrospect, I don’t think it was really necessary. The +1 Demo skills was nice but the skill itself eats the energy bar up unless you focus on regen to compensate. I think if I was going to level this character over again, I would just prioritize maxing thermite mines and let that carry me until near the end of Malmouth and then switch the focus to Grenado: Shattering Blast once I had enough % Retaliation damage. Note: you do need the Conflagration relic to eventually craft an Ulzuin Pyroclasm but it can be acquired later.
Once you get far enough in Malmouth to unlock the Resistance vendor, you can then purchase an Ascendant Conduit and Colossal Fortress. These two items will supercharge your Vindictive Flame and I think this is a good time to then switch your medal to a Kymon’s Badge and focus on Grenado and Ulzuin’s Chosen (around level 60-ish). Other than that, just refer to the snapshots to see what gear to shoot for. Fleshwarped Platemail and Gollus Rings are easy to get and should be core pieces. Later on add Ugdenbog Girdle, Vilgazor’s Amulet, and Dreeg-Sect pants.
In the final budget spec, I think the Fettan Mask is the best choice until you get the blueprint for the Infernal Mask. For the weapon I went with Hexflame as I think the RR to thermite mines performs better than a Conduit. Craft it with Ignus the Conclave smith for a chance at retaliation bonus. Fewmet Grips are easy to get, just put in the legwork to unlock Bonebleach Basin.
Budget Build Performance
Final Thoughts
The fire version has now pulled ahead of lightning but I wouldn’t count Biggs out just yet. There’s still plenty of epic items that may get the Awakening treatment so we’ll see what happens down the road (or maybe we can convince the devs to revert some of the dawnbreaker nerfs). I’ve included copies of both characters to download. The amount of time it takes to fully ascend even one build is time consuming, so try them both out to see which one you prefer.
Other than that, I still need to record some more vids like N’erf fights so stay tuned.
Let me know what you think and happy bombing!
