AoM made the base game version entirely irrelevant.
FG introduced movement skills, SR, (eventually) Totems and one of the best masteries, yet again making much of pre-FG irrelevant.
By the looks of it, FoA will have more mechanical features and itemization changes than the other DLCs combined.
Everything points to FoA invalidating most of, if not all of, the existing GD ‘meta’, guides and expected power-level.
the DLC testers can test 1.3
In general, I guess this 1.3 balance test could have been kept internal.
Unless there aren’t enough active Praetorians left to actually test anything.
Some of the changes don’t make sense without FoA and will make the experience worse for non-DLC holders.
(No surprise here, selling fixes as DLC is Crate Entertainment hallmark, making the game worse before a DLC drop is only the next logical step.)
Slapping a “changes only make sense with FoA” disclaimer on the test does absolutely nothing to alleviate that.
I can only read that as “your opinion doesn’t really matter here, so don’t expect us to change anything based on your feedback”.
Either way, doesn’t make much difference to me.
I’m out.
I am not really sure what’s the fuss is about, aside waittime for the next best thing, which obviously will come out soon.
Mad lee you are worrying about the balance of game? Cuz the thing is hotfixes and patches will come after 1.3 release anyway, we will have to re-adjust our builds no matter what.
And the thing is, there are definitely couple few people probably (preotarians) who do have access right now and have tested bunch of stuff beforehand so it’s not like it’s been seen on eyes of devs only.
Matter of fact I suggest to cooldown and apprecate that something new is coming so we can play with it later.
I am worried that testing balance in this test patch turned out to be a huge waste of time and judging by Zantai’s usual condescending tone/attitude he really doesn’t appreciate or care about the time testers put into testing his game.
As I can see, the problem is as follows. If 1.3 release separately of FoA, We tests exactly patch, including not only balance but also mechanics (mechanics in the absence of FoA in fact). And we feepback it for current game state. If 1.3 releases together with FoA, players who absolutely sure buy DLC, and will play new game state with new different mechanics and balance, leaving 1.3PT to whom could not receive DLC immediately (Yes, i sometimes see youtube and streams with base game).
What about quote:
Grim Dawn has received back-end changes to accommodate the upcoming release of the Fangs of Asterkarn Expansion
There in fact half-true. Current build doesn’t have some new code and changes it most probably will recieve with FoA (shapeshift skill template not work, CD/duration synergy not work, loot quality affixes not work etc.) Some was with AoM and FG release. For example RAtA exists only in FG, but all other values for skills/items same for base game, however RAtA mechanics backed in engine.
Speaking of FoA, Iskandra with marked bonuses could be expact to play different than without it (spoilers from 2025):
Or form Rektbyprotoss’ streams we could notice, Ulzuin’s Chosen will recieve charges for grenado, but we could not touch it in PT .
And last, what about Me. I absolutely calm about release 1.3 and FoA. I mentioned release of prevoius DLCs. We never tested new masteries and mechanics (for example movement skills) on PT, and it was no drama on release. Meta shakes, bugfixes and OP nefs is common.
Zantai has not been hiding anything. This quote is from the patch that came before the Forgotten Gods DLC in 2019:
If we were to apply the same to FoA, the purpose of 1.3 was to test the UI changes and make sure nobody fat-fingered a numerical change when getting things ready for the new expansion. Typos happen, things get really screwy, better to get it out of the way now before the expansion drops and people tank sales by giving bad reviews because a bug that could have been fixed made it to the expansion.
It is okay to put the game down for a few weeks. Really excited about FoA release!
I like how I listed lack of clear communication as one of the problems here and you are sort of confirming it by quoting something from 2019 that is supposed to explain current situation (??) and then giving honestly a bit of a scrambled explanation of what this 1.3 test patch is about.
There is no “current situation”, except for the one you’ve constructed.
Based on readings of the dev’s post, it’s been clear to me that 1.3 and FoA were going to be released close to each other if not at the same time it makes sense.
They don’t do public testing on DLC. So you wouldn’t be able to test it anyway, unless you were a closed beta tester.
If this was your concern, you should have asked instead of assumed.
By that logic, feel free to stay out of every playtest, because you will never have the full internal picture and never did.
I’ve basically been in self-imposed crunch since January, taking into account the v1.3 playtest feedback alongside everything I actually need to do. So I think you can guess how much patience I have left for this insane meltdown.
I’m a bit confused why everyone is upset about this now when the wording from the very beginning of the play test was
We’ve known from the start that the meta was going to change with the expansion release and some balance feedback would or wouldn’t be considered because of things (items or mechanics) FoA will introduce. But even after the expansion releases we can suggest changes if there’s something we feel is way too over or under powered. If those top tier builders bring enough data to the table I don’t see why Crate wouldn’t consider their proposed changes. While it would be cool if those people had access to all the content for testing and balance purposes, isn’t part of the fun of the new expansions for you guys to find those new meta builds and mechanics?
This is a pretty wild statement, would you care to elaborate at all? Because I don’t recall Crate doing any such thing. Those people that are playing the base game only are new players testing if they’ll like the game or not. They’re not playing it because it’s the superior version. Once they decide they like it, they download the dlcs. That may not be the case for every single person but I would argue it’s the case for the majority. What changes will make the experience worse for players without the dlc? Would the majority of those players be aware of the change that’s hindering their experience and would it compel them to buy the expansion(s) or not?
Are you realising what there are community who actively played beta test, sended feedback, and all that, basically spending their own time for free for the sake of some game improvement, and now all the testing, all the feedback is basically meaningless and actually means nothing, aside of maybe UI feedback. (yes, this mentioned community are enjoying the process, but nontheless). I can’t even call this beta testing anymore, that’s just “early access”. And Z’s statement about “upcoming changes will make sense with FoA release” are not helping it, because it really not hinted what 1.3 will release with FoA. All what was really needed is to Z write what current beta is basically not coming into live in current state, like it was in previous betas.
And yes, basic game is becoming worse with 1.3 and Crate selling fixes for many issues like endgame in DLCs, that’s just a fact.
Zantai literally wrote the intentions of the 1.3 playtest in the very first sentence of the 1.3 thread:
The v1.3.0 playtest has begun! This is a massive backend update that introduces significant changes to UI and prepares the game for the upcoming Fangs of Asterkarn release.
Just because Zantai communicates in a style that you don’t approve of, doesn’t mean that he isn’t communicating. It took all of several seconds in Grimtools to find the patch that corresponded with Grim Dawn’s most recent expansion and see if Crate’s communication is consistent between then and now.
Would I have liked to know exact specifications and deadlines? Certainly, but I don’t work for Crate and have no personal or financial stake in making sure FoA comes out cleanly. Also note that GD’s DLCs almost always contain a few things that apply to the base game and for people who haven’t bought the expansions yet, similar to how AoM introduced skill modifiers, but people who only have the base game have access to some of them as well.
We will know more for sure on Monday when the next Grim Misadventures drops. Assuming things are consistent, FoA will come out roughly a few weeks after v1.3 once all the little details are fixed.
Throwing this shit at us during another massive free update of all times is just blowing my mind. Stuff we could have easily hidden behind the paywall like every other studio on earth does. Unbelievable…
I am aware that the testers are doing this of their own volition and in their own free time, as am I. But how is it now that all of this testing is for naught? The point remains that from the beginning we’ve known certain feedback would or would not be considered due to knowledge the devs have that we are not privy to. The testers have known this for months.
Is it because the new revelation that 1.3 will ship with FoA together? That should have been assumed from the beginning, to be honest. That’s typically how patches release along side expansions. Also my point still stands that people are free to make whatever feedback they like after the expansion drops. If people feel like their feedback is unwanted or meaningless then they’re free to stop whenever they wish. None of us are on Crate’s payroll.
Again, there is no elaboration here. If you’re going to make bold claims then the burden of proof is on you. That’s a fact.
Selling endgame in DLC’s? Yes, every expansion has impacted endgame. AoM increased the level cap to 100 and introduced new Skeleton key dungeons. FG added the shattered realm and movement skills. FoA will change endgame significantly with the new alter and endgame difficulty. I don’t see what the argument here is. I’d be more concerned if their expansions didn’t touch endgame at all. Don’t we want more endgame content with new releases?
So maybe it’s time to rethink your approach to work, communication, and player feedback? No one needs a three-year free wait; it’s better to have free access, a quick release, and everyone happy. There’s no need to hide behind “free” as if it were the highest good, because DLC will still cost money. Learn to be more flexible in the modern world, marketing, and everything that would help you as a studio develop, instead of fighting against windmills. Three years is a very long time these days; other studios release successful games in that time. And yes, as a Grim Dawn fan, I don’t care what you did with Frontier or why DLC is coming out, while we still don’t know what to expect or when!
