Life leech is different, it happens at the same time ( healing and damage) and it is like transfer. But ADTCH is what happens after the damage is done. After the damage is done, target should have no control over what happens to me . Because you define damage as “what happens after all resistances and calculations”. Also i may be fu*king sadist who is thrilled with the damage i have done and seeing enemy suffer gives me joy and healing. Target should have no control or resistance over my joy!
I was talking about logic wise by the way. Balance wise it makes sense =)
ADTCH is a broken mechanic that contradict with ARPG spirit. LL resistance is a eyepatch on big nasty problem of sustain scaling with dmg.
Just tink about it - with 300K dipies and 4% ADTCH without LL resistance youre gain 12k life per second every second. Thats make you immortal, unless something overhelm your lifepool with oneshot, aka PoE crapway.
Personaly, i would remove all ADTCH from all sourse exept Vitality spells/procs.
Sorry, I don’t really get what you guys want to say. It’s neither broken or too weak.
ADCTH is a powerful mechanic to improve survivability. Most melee builds need at least some kind of ADCTH to perform well and some builds heavily rely on it to perform top notch.
There are almost no mobs in the game having 100% resistance to ADCTH, most Nemesis and Bosses sit at 60-90%. This is just enough to have you being able to hit them constantly while getting some health back from every hit.
Every ARPG has some kind of Lifesteal or Life on Hit mechanic, it makes the gaming experience much more fluid.
On the other hand, the Life Leech mechanic in Grim Dawn is a bit of flawed imo. There are not enough Skills and Devotions to make it viable.
But maybe some Mobs need Life Leech, I’m not completely sure about that.
Balance wise your corcerns are rite. I was talking about logic wise. It is easy to balance ADTCH when it comes from spells because spells are like more limited and their damages are obvious. But wps skills on the other hand, harder to balance for ADTCH. Removing is not good idea but it must be heavily nerfed and it must not be a main survival mechanic but just a helper like hp regen.
i’m more in Ptirodaktill side as i always hated that stat, because it gives a defensive bonus to offense. it’s more or less like cheating to me (i don’t mean i consider others using it cheating, just i don’t like using it myself). i play melee builds which works without it too.
but in GD it’s more like an additional mechanic, it has already been nerfed several times and is quite in the right spot now imo (although i still don’t use it ofc :rolleyes:)
Sorry, I don’t really get what you guys want to say. It’s neither broken or too weak.
It gets out of hand wery quick if you pair it with High DPS output. Its the primary reason why Piercemasters were the most powerfull class that trivialised the game. Aslo, when it was nerfed that was a HUGE rant on forum, cause all these 1MIL dipies piercemasters couldnt faceroll anymore.
There are almost no mobs in the game having 100% resistance to ADCTH, most Nemesis and Bosses sit at 60-90%. This is just enough to have you being able to hit them constantly while getting some health back from every hit.
Benjar is immune, IRC, and all these obsidian nasty.
Every ARPG has some kind of Lifesteal or Life on Hit mechanic, it makes the gaming experience much more fluid.
It aslo make those whithout it a second-rate chars. I dont have anything against flat life get on hit , or DoT LL, but unrestricted ADTCH is another story. IT is broken right now and things would only get worse as dmg scale higher.
I wonder why ‘Chance for ADCTH’ has been purged nowadays and we’re back to static ADCTH. It seemed like it was a good idea back then…
ADCTH is probably the single most broken stat in the game, but because of the spikiness of enemy damage output it’s virtually essential to have a spiky method of healing. It’s also always been my favorite method of healing (as opposed to regen/proc-heals/potions) simply due to the aggressive nature of the stat. If it were removed from existence I’d probably stop playing GD and solely play TQ:AE/D2.
Just tink about it - with 300K dipies and 4% ADTCH without LL resistance youre gain 12k life per second every second.
12k life per second per second…? I didn’t realize we had health acceleration. In your proposed scenario, the problem seems more as though to stem from the existence of a 300k dps build rather than the existence of 4% ADCTH.
As far as enemy resistances are concerned, the present situation has its ups and downs. For one, ADCTH-immune enemies present a tactical layer to gameplay and raise the skill ceiling ever so slightly for characters relying on ADCTH. On the other hand, some enemies can feel as though they are walling off content for players relying on ADCTH, which is never a good thing because that’s not fun.
There’s not especially a big difference. Healing is healing, and GD has too many enemies with gap-closer skills to suggest that SoC/DS wouldn’t ever take damage anyway. WPS just takes it more reliably. But ADCTH isn’t a damage mitigation tool, it’s a recovery tool, and builds relying on both ADCTH and WPS should acknowledge that and plan accordingly. After all, stronger damage mitigation makes ADCTH more efficient.
I didn’t say any of it. I was talking about its logic wise perspective.
I always see at as a percentage based Life on Hit mechanic. As soon as your weapon hits, it transfers life to your Character, based on the damage you inflict. So the effect doesn’t occur after the damage is done, it occurs as soon as the damage is done.
Also, imo, it is at a good place in the game atm. They balanced it out quite a few times and even overnerfed it some time ago, which made nearly all my DW builds dying asap.
As I said, every ARPG needs a mechanic like LoH or Lifesteel to play fluid.
The only melee Chars I can think of not using ADCTH are maybe SS builds, Commandos and some Shaman builds. Imo, a maxed Wendigo Totem can be the far more potent source of sustainability than ADCTH.
Also, nerfing ADCTH even more would result in very limited Gear/Devotion diversity. It’s in the right place right now.
12k life per second per second…? I didn’t realize we had health acceleration. In your proposed scenario, the problem seems more as though to stem from the existence of a 300k dps build rather than the existence of 4% ADCTH.
Sry, i would say a permanent 12k health gain per second.
And the problem is not in DPS. In my point, any DPS is fine as long as it came with a price of survivability. Want DPS? Play glass canon. But when a Glass canon became invincible, then ppl begin to wonder whats the point in playing a nonglass canon build. It aslo make other sourses of sustain not that good - why bother with regen when you can restore the whole life pool in one hit?
The logic is sound imo: You’re enticed to keep hitting to maintain sustain. It creates the situation where you lose health (say after a pot) and now must decide to kite like mad or get in and hit like hell and hope you don’t get interrupted.
Of course if DPS can be scaled way past where there is risk then the DPS is a problem. On the other hand super OP builds with all BiS gear are going to also have OP ADCTH (note spelling…) much like most other BiS builds are practically immortal.
At least i hope it doesn’t get changed based on complaints that don’t take a holistic view.
It does not matter whether there is difference or not, game is not all about numbers and balances etc having fun must be priority. You fill the gaps with your imagination this is why i said SOC or DS Adcth is more fun. It gives me the sadistic feeling.
Agreed. You have to sacrifice something in order to gain anything. Balance wise, adcth resistance makes a lot of sense. As Ceno said, 300k dps must be balanced instead of %4 heal of it.
In your proposed scenario, the problem seems more as though to stem from the existence of a 300k dps build rather than the existence of 4% ADCTH.