Advanced Mechanics

Grim Dawn Guides and Tutorials
41

Might be worth mentioning that adding proc skills takes weights from L or R attacks, and thus exceeding (reaching?) 100% proc skills will remove all single L or R (press Z or R twice!) attacks. You’ve shown this graphically, but its not explicitly mentioned (except by medierra in the quote after the one you linked).

I’m also pretty sure your implementation of Markovian’s is wrong, unless I’m bad with math (which isn’t out of the question); oughtn’t the both-weapon-proc remain untouched by the introduction of another WPS, save for when exceeding 100%?

42

I’m sorry you had to go through that mess of BBCode just to find that quote. I edited in explicitly taking out default attacks.

Uh, it’s pretty easy to test. Fill your WPS with 80 weights, and then attack stuff. Do you still do Left and Right default attacks?

And like I mentioned, I don’t know the weight values for these basic attacks, so it could be that “both” just has 10 weights, and isn’t reduced until L=R=B. I don’t know.

If you find something in the game files, feel free to PM me that, and I’ll add it in. I couldn’t find anything.

Also, why must you use confusing contractions?! “oughtn’t” isn’t a word! :wink:

43

Who are you to argue with cambridge?

44

Ah, yes. It’s in the line of should/could/would.

Why not just say “shouldn’t”? Is there a slight connotation difference I’m missing, or is it just dialect specific to different regions?

45

Ought & Should are interchangeable grammatically; Must is the one that has some particular details about its usage.

Regionally? Maybe. Despite being in the `states, I prefer English English rather than Americanized English; too hipster, I guess.

tl;dr we need an advanced mechanics of language thread. /sarcasm /pleaseno

46

I’ve been around inner-city regions my whole life (mostly Detroit and Miami). I prefer the more… uh… lower income style of talking than “Proper” American English. But I do my best not to reflect that in my posts.

You should hear me talk though, it’s appearently interesting to hear a white guy say these words without the typical accent associated with them.

Call to Action: I am looking for linguists to MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

47

Well then, do I have the treat for you. I’m just waiting for the ok from the Devs to make public a small bit of information from the game files, and then I’ll write up the post explaining it. (Edited, of course, depending on whether they say yes or no.) :smiley:

48

that’s cheating…

49

Lawl, I impirically dervived everything but one number, thank you very much.

50

This post is dedicated purely to Armor and how it works.
B27 H0

Terms Used:[ul][li]AA - Armor Absorption - A percentage value that is on each armor slot. Depending on whether damage incoming is either higher or lower than the armor, then this stat is used to determine whether all of the damage is reduced by Armor Absorption, or just a portion.[/li]
[li]DAA - Default Armor Absorption - Currently set to 70% or .7[/li]
[li]IAA - Increased Armor Absorption - The amount of Armor Absorption increased from the “Armor Absorption by x%” stat.[/li]
[li]A - Armor (Armor Rating) - The amount of Armor given on a slot. When found on Char I sheet, it is an average of average found on all slots, plus the armor on slots that cannot be hit.[/li]
[li]PhysDam - Physical Damage - Incoming Physical Damage[/ul][/li]Formulas Used:
If incoming damage is less than armor: (PhysDam*(1-AA)) = Damage Taken
If incoming damage is more than armor: (A*(1-AA))+(PhysDam-A) = Damage Taken

Local and Global Slots

[spoiler]These slots are Local, and have their own Armor and “Increases Armor Absorption by x%”. Their Chance to Hit Area values are also given.

[ul][li]Head: 15%[/li]
[li]Shoulders: 15%[/li]
[li]Chest: 26%[/li]
[li]Arms: 12%[/li]
[li]Legs: 20%[/li]
[li]Feet: 12%[/ul][/li]These slots cannot be hit, and are Global. They instead add their Armor and “Increases Armor Absorption by x%” to all slots:

[ul][li]Rings [/li]
[li]Necklace[/li]
[li]Weapon[/li]
[li]Offhand[/li]
[li]Relic[/li]
[li]Belt[/li]
[li]Medal[/ul][/spoiler][/li]
Armor Absorption
Once an attack that has Physical Damage is given, the game decides which piece of armor is hit. The game does this through weights, and the weights can be seen in the “Local and Global Slots” section. There then exists two scenarios, where incoming physical damage is below or equal to your armor rating on the chosen slot, or it is above.

Incoming Physical Damage is Below or Equal to Armor Rating
When incoming damage is below or equal the Armor Rating of a slot, the armor is allowed to absorb only your armor absorption value of the damage, the rest goes through.
So if I have 100 armor in the chosen Armor slot, and the default 70 Armor Absorption, and 60 Physical Damage is coming:
(PhysDam*(1-AA)) = 60*(1-.7) = 18 Physical Damage taken.

Notice that your armor value doesn’t really matter in this equation, so long as you have more armor than the damage, you will take 30% of the damage.

Incoming Physical Damage is Above Armor Rating
When incoming damage is above the Armor Rating of a slot, that armor is allowed to absorb only your armor absorption value of the damage, the rest goes through.
So, if I have 500 armor, and the default 70 Armor Absorption, and 1000 Physical Damage is coming:
(A*(1-AA))+(PhysDam-A) = 500*(1-.7) + (1000 - 500) = 150 + 500 = 650.

Notice that 30% of the incoming damage (150) slipped through your Armor.

Physical Resistance
Physical Reisistance is applied after armor calculations are done. So if you had 150 physical damage after applying armor, and you had 8% Physical Resistance, you would then use the normal formula to figure out how much Physical Damage you would take:
(Damage*(1-Resistance) = Damage Taken
(150*(1-.08) = 138 Physical Damage Taken.

Armor Absorption Stacking
The way Armor Absorption is stacked is from Increases “Armor Absorption by x%” on affixes like Rugged. It stacks like this:
DAA * (1+(IAA+IAA+…))
So, if we had 5% increased armor absorption on our boots, and 8% on our shield, the equation would look like this:
.70*(1+(.05+.08))= .791 or 79.1%

As noted by eisprinzessin, the only global slot that can currently have IAA is a shield. Every other slot that can have IAA is a local slot, which means that the IAA value on that slot can only effect that slot. Scars of Battle (a Soldier Passive) can increase global Armor Absorption by 25% at 8/8 or 35% at 18/10.

Conclusion:
I started “researching” this because medierra recently made an armor statement that disagreed with how the Game Guide at the time said it worked (it has since been fixed). I then asked Ceno and Ninetrix how Armor worked, and they both described it different to how the Game Guide described it at the time, however, in testing it was evident that armor worked in a different way. So then I put a thread on the No Reply forum basically saying WTF CRATE, but in a nicer way and medierra spilled the beans on how armor works. So all the credit goes to him, despite Ceno and Ninetrix trying to tell me otherwise. Tsk. Tsk.

There may exist a better way to detail the formulas, but I choose the way I did simply because that is how medierra showed me it, and I wanted to emulate that style, and not risk losing any information.

Feel free to correct misinformation, suggest additions, or ask questions!

51

Great post about armor.

(AAA)+(PhysDam-A) = 500(1-.7) + (1000 - 500) = 150 + 500 = 650.

Should be (A*(1-AA))+(PhysDam-A) = 500*(1-.7) + (1000 - 500) = 150 + 500 = 650.

52

Whoops, thanks!

53

I still think armor is unnecessarily complicated, between the ancient design of chance to hit a specific body part and that body part having its own armor, to the arcane calculation of armor absorption that you can’t quickly determine in-game.

54

I disagree with you, I think the armor formula is absolutely brilliant.
I agree that Armor Absorption should be a stat that you can find when you hover over your “Armor Rating” value.

Rather than write a new post, I’m just going to quote from my feedback on the no-reply thread regarding the armor formula saying why I think it is very very good. Just note that some of the information may be wrong in there.

55

Shields? Do they apply before armor and reduce the incoming damage to be absorbed or work some other way? It’s great info about armor but I’d really like to know how much a shield benefits the char. And thanks.

56

Shields apply after all other defenses.

57

does anyone know if ‘x less damage from undead’ functions the same as flat damage absorption (not armor absorption) in TQ? the latter was an extremely rare modifier but it was tremendously beneficial due to double dipping on physical attacks (and triple-dipping on any physical attacks with piercing conversion)

if you had 8 damage absorption and took a hit that was 20 physical, 10 fire, and 10 lightning damage, and the physical damage exceeded the amount your normal armor would absorb, it would end up absorbing 32 of the incoming damage: 8 fire and 8 lightning, then 8 for the physical damage not reduced by armor, followed by another 8 for the damage reduced

i recall back when i used to farm sot with a battlemage wearing a consecrated necklace that the damage reduction was quite noticeable on trash mobs

58

Hi !

Are all elemental, chaos, vitality, poison, aether, acid, pierce dmg equal ? What about monsters resistances ?
I feel like it is way more difficult to build blood, vitality, aether or chaos, am i wrong ? Is it worth ?
How vitality decay works ?
There is no/few stuff when you build caster-conjurer (no pets), am i wrong ?

Sorry for the “bad english” i wrote…

59

It seems there is a small mistake. You are not using the same order in the general case and in your example. I think it should be :

  1. [li]n Reduced Target’s Resistance and -n% Resistance[/li][*]n% Reduced Target’s Resistance
60

Does it actually work with shields? I wonder since they have their own damage. What about Skills that derive thier damage from said Shield e.g. Blitz/Forcewave? Do they get both MoD Effects or only one?
I guess MoD doesn’t not stack with any affix effects or innate weapon n% reduced resists, but can you confirm that?