Advanced Mechanics

What did I do wrong? I verified everything possible in game about them, and went with the game guide on them. It’s not helpful to just say I did something wrong without saying or exaplaining what.

You have different assumptions in different parts of you guide. You was confused by own formulas

I have no idea what system of math you’re using, but it must not be standard. This is why you need to show your work.

PTH=((((OA*5)+7500)–(DA*5))/75)–15         [b]        | Start[/b]
PTH=((5*(OA+(7500/5)-DA))/75)-15                   [b]| Factor out 5 in the Numerator[/b]
PTH=((OA+1500-DA)/15)-15                           [b]| Multiply where needed from previous step.[/b]
PTH=(15/15)*(((OA+1500-DA)/15) +((15/15)-15)[b]       | Multiply by common denominator (15)[/b]
[b]*Note for next step I forgot to write out in initial math[/b]: ((15/15)-15) = -(15*15)/15
PTH=(OA+1500-DA-(15*15))/15                        [b]| Combine numerators over common denominator[/b]
PTH=(OA+1500-DA-225)/15                            [b]| Multiply -(15*15)[/b]
PTH=(OA-DA+1275)/15                                [b]| Subtract (1500-225)[/b]

So your real simplified formula is PTH = (OA-DA+1275)/15. If you want to be a stickler, you can factor out (-1) and end with PTH=-(DA-OA-1275)/15, but I don’t think that step is neccesary.

I didn’t simplify this out in the guide because I figured it was unneeded, although perhaps you are right, I should add it in. I don’t know why it should take you four posts just to say that though.

Why do you add new term “mod” without explaining it? People shouldn’t need to decrypt what you’re trying to say.

Why do you add new term “mod” without explaining it? People shouldn’t need to decrypt what you’re trying to say.

I do not need “explain” something. It’s just value. Some number which I gave name. I named it “mod” because it’s short version of “modificator”.

So your real simplified formula is PTH = (OA-DA+1275)/15. If you want to be a stickler, you can factor out (-1) and end with PTH=-(DA-OA-1275)/15, but I don’t think that step is neccesary.

(OA - DA + 1275) / 15 = 85 + (OA - DA) / 15
It’s not some sort of differential calculus where you can make mistake and need to explain.

I didn’t simplify this out in the guide because I figured it was unneeded, although perhaps you are right, I should add it in. I don’t know why it should take you four posts just to say that though.

15 OA for each 1% PTH - this is exactly what you need to say in such guide.

Also such guide should give player estimation how much dps he will recieve for each 1% PTH (or 15 OA)

PTH=(OA-DA+1275)/15
PTH=(OA-DA)/15 + 1275/15
PTH=(OA-DA)/15 + 85
PTH = 85 + (OA - DA) / 15

love your guide but maybe you can add this “Each 15 OA/DA difference give you 1% PTH” in note

Thx mate. It’s too simple for Grohuf to explain.

This formula is wrong:

Let’s quickly test it with example values from the game guide:

Example: PTH = 132, 1-90 hits, 91-109 critically hits for 1.25x damage, 110-129 critically hits for 1.5x damage, 130-132 critically hits for 1.75x damage

According to your formula:
132 = PTH = 100 + (42/132*100 - 10) = 121,82

In your Moosilauke example the real PTH is given by 90/(1-CC) = 108.04 etc.

Grohuf gave the correct formula for CC, you can turn it around to get PTH.

this sounds a little misleading. in a sense, those debuffs certainly can stack; while only the largest source is applied at any time, all of the various small sources available from your gear (e.g. plaguebearer’s adept’s spellblade with two marks of dreeg) applies as a single 70+ point debuff.

decent start, i’ll be impressed when you explain attack speed.

cc = (PTH - 90) / max(100,PTH) * 100;

Always right…

But in any case. Normal guide is needed. So I hope sometime you will write correct one (and full)

cc = (PTH - 90) / max(100,PTH) * 100;

You are cheating…

One day. No one understands attack speed.

I’m just going to insert your quote about the resistances, into the post. Thanks!

Hey you explained it, hallujuah!

Thanks for taking the time and effort everyone for explaining this to me. Both of these things and the reduced resistance below negative example are now added.

EDIT: We are aware that the two formulas are equivilent, right? 1-(90/PTH) is just the same as (PTH-90)/(PTH*100%), but with 100%=1, and PTH factored out. There’s nothing I can be missing about this, unless if you’re all saying the *100% means something other than multiply by 1.

Didn’t see this thread till now. Played over 1k hours of TQ, but still learned something from this. Will read more later. Bump for ya, thanks!

Everything should be fixed. Please let me know if there are still errors.

PTH=90/(CC-1) [IF CH IS GREATER THAN 100, OTHERWISE PTH=CH]

If CC=0.2 then PTH = -112.5
Wow, negative chance to hit. Life did not prepare me for this…

Typo :rolleyes:

Chances are good you won’t be finding that hiding away (or I would think they’d take better care with that) as it’s a dev item they use to test things out without worrying about dying.

:ah read the link and they already say what it is, my bad ;/

Go for it, that’s why I have the linking system in the OP, so I can just add another peice to the thread and then link it, otherwise I’d have to reserve 10+ posts to get all the advanced mechanics in a row, and I didn’t want to do that.

PTH=-90/(1-CC)

PTH is still negative…

  1. Crowd-Control timing, particularly with regards to Knockdown: Knockdown usually makes enemies have a particular getting-up animation associated with the debuff; is the duration of this animation considered part of the duration of the knockdown, i.e., if I knockdown an enemy with a .3 second animation for 1.5 seconds, they’ll be knockeddown for 1.2 seconds and then display their animation for the full 1.5 seconds? Or, in the example described, is the .3 seconds added onto the 1.5 seconds of the knockdown debuff in terms of disable length?[/li][ul][li]Furthermore, is the getting-up animation standardized in length, or does it vary from enemy to enemy (barring knockdown resistance)?[/ul]
  2. Maybe discuss Order of Defense in general, and with regards to reflection? i.e., at what point is the reflection calculation done, before or after damage mitigation?
  3. It’s moderately well-known that flat statistic values on shields only affect abilities which use that shield; can the same be said for offhands? For instance, if I put a Mark of Dreeg on an offhand, does the offhand need to be used in a skill in order to take advantage of the acid damage/resist reduction?

I’ll post more as they come to me, which they do from time to time.

Caster offhands apply to the mainhand. A mark of dreeg on a weapon and a mark of dreeg on an offhand will stack additively.

It’s moderately well-known that flat statistic values on shields only affect abilities which use that shield; can the same be said for offhands? For instance, if I put a Mark of Dreeg on an offhand, does the offhand need to be used in a skill in order to take advantage of the acid damage/resist reduction?

I suppose damage of an offhand will be same as damage of a main weapon. But I forget did I test this.

This post is dedicated purely to the Weapon Pool System. This system governs when your character uses skills like Mutilate, Zolhan’s Technique, or Amarasta’s Quick Cut over their default attacks.
B26 H3

Terms Used:[ul][li]WPS - Weapon Pool System or Weapon Pool Skills, depending on context[/ul][/li]What skills add to the Weapon Pool?
Skills that say “n% Chance to be Used” can be added to the Weapon Pool System.
This includes all these skills or skills on these items:[ul][li]Nightblade:[list][]Belgothian Shears B[/li]
[li]Amarasta’s Quick Cut A[/li]
[li]Whirling Death W[/li]
[li]Execution E[/ul][
]Soldier:[ul][]Markovian’s Advantage M[/li]
[li]Zolhan’s Technique Z[/ul][
]Items:[ul][*]Brawler’s Gloves (Gloves)[/li]
[li]Notched Bone of a Thousand Deaths (1h Axe) (Above current level cap)[/li]
[li]Bladesworn Talisman (Relic)[/li]
[li]Bladedance’s Talisman (Relic)[/li]
[li]Blademaster’s Talisman (Relic) (Above current level cap)[/li]
[li]Marauder’s Ammo Belt (Belt) (Ranged)[/li]
[li]Gunslinger’s Talisman (Relic) (Ranged)[/li]
[li]Marauder’s Talisman (Relic) (Ranged)[/li]
[li]Plunderer’s’s Talisman (Relic) (Ranged) (Above current level cap)[/ul][/list]
[/li]This does not include skills that say one of these things:[ul][li]n% Chance on attacking (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on attacking (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on a critical attack (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on a critical attack (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit by a critical (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit by a critical (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit by a melee attack (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit by a melee attack (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on low health (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on low health (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on blocking (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on blocking (target enemy).[/ul]
[/li]The Weapon Pool System
Recall that there is no such thing as percentage in Grim Dawn, everything is done by weights. So, when you equip an item or use a skill that adds to your WPS, what’s really happening is you’re adding weights to the Weapon Pool System. The game then rolls a die to decide whether you attack with a skill, or your default attack.
Pretty standard.
The system is the exact same whether you use a Ranged weapon or a Melee weapon.

Two Handed or One Handed + Shield/Focus
If we maxed out Markovian’s Advantage (25 weights), for instance, our WPS bar would look something like this (Each letter is 5 weights, let us denote a Default attack as “D”):
MMMMMDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Duel Wielding
The only thing different about Duel Wielding is that you don’t have a default attack, you have three default attacks*:[ul][li]Left Hand Attack L (35)[/li]
[li]Right Hand Attack R (35)[/li]
[li]Both B (30)[/ul][/li]*I don’t know the weights for these, but for the purposes of explaining, I’m going to assume the numbers I put by them.

So a standard attack with nothing in your Weapon Pool would look like:
LLLLLLLRRRRRRRBBBBBB

If you add a Weapon Pool Skill, you take away equivalent amounts of the three different types of attacks. Here it is with a maxed Markovian’s Advantage (25 Weights):
MMMMMLLLLLRRRRRBBBBB
Notice that some default Left attacks, some default Right attacks, and some default Both attacks were removed from the Weapon Pool Skill.

Pretty Simple. Let’s say that we had more than 100 weights in our system:
MMMMMZZZZZBBBBAAAAWWWWEEEE
Then the engine would just roll a die with the range of 1 to the total number of weights in the system, in this case, 130.
Recap:The Weapon Pool System is pretty simple. Just remember that if you go over 100 Weights, then you dilute the pool. So if you prefer to have Execution occur the most, then max that skill out, and lower other skills until your WPS has 100 weights!

Charges (Cadence)
There is reason to believe that B27 changed information in this section. This information may be out of date.
The differing WPS skills add different charges to skills like Cadence. Here are the skills you can get from Nightblade and Soldier.

[ul][li]Melee DW:[list][*]MA hits with both weapons, only gives one charge to Cadence.[/li]
[li]ZT hits with one weapon, only gives one charge to Cadence.[/li]
[li]BS hits with both weapons, gives two charges to Cadence.[/li]
[li]AQC hits with both weapons, gives three charges to Cadence.[/li]
[li]WD hits with both weapons, gives one charge to Cadence. (I could be wrong here).[/ul][/li]
[li]Range DW:[ul][/li]
[li]MA hits with one weapon, only gives one charge to Cadence.[/li]
[li]ZT hits with one weapon, only gives one charge to Cadence.[/ul][/list][/li]
WPS Works with These Skills:

[ul][li]Fire Strike - Demolitionist[/li]
[li]Savagery - Shaman[/li]
[li]Troll Rage - Mistborn Talisman (Relic)[/li]
[li]Beronath’s Fury - Shard of Beronath (Melee Weapon Materia) (Not currently available)[/ul][/li]
Conclusion:
Most of this information comes from a quote from medierra where he describes a little bit of the system. So the credit goes to him.

Feel free to correct misinformation, suggest additions, or ask questions!