All you need to know about conversion

[Aer]

Hello, I’ve never dwelled inside conversion mechanics but I wanna try some things now.
I’ve read and reread the first post but there’s a few points I’m not sure about.

Since AoM, there’s those “transmuters” on equipments (in blue), does this count as Skill/Transmuter or Buff/Equipment in the conversion chain ? I suppose the former but I prefer to be sure.

If I understand things right, you add up the % on each piece of stuff. Like, if you have a 25% elemental to physical and another 25% elemental to physical, it’ll make 50% elemental to physical in the end ? Then, if you manage to get 100% elemental to physical and you also have a 25% lightning to physical, does the 25% break down the stacking due to the weighting ?
I know elemental stuff’s always a bit tricky so well ~~.

Thank you.

[DenisMashutikov]

Hello, I’ve never dwelled inside conversion mechanics but I wanna try some things now.
I’ve read and reread the first post but there’s a few points I’m not sure about.

Since AoM, there’s those “transmuters” on equipments (in blue), does this count as Skill/Transmuter or Buff/Equipment in the conversion chain ? I suppose the former but I prefer to be sure.

If I understand things right, you add up the % on each piece of stuff. Like, if you have a 25% elemental to physical and another 25% elemental to physical, it’ll make 50% elemental to physical in the end ? Then, if you manage to get 100% elemental to physical and you also have a 25% lightning to physical, does the 25% break down the stacking due to the weighting ?
I know elemental stuff’s always a bit tricky so well ~~.

Thank you.

Item Granted Transmuters applies on Skill/Transmuter step. In general they works as if they placed right in skill tree.

If you have samy type convertion they will stack: 25% EleToPhys + 25% EleToPhys = 50% EleToPhys. But elemental damage have priority to separate Fire cold and lightning, so for your example it will be: 100% EleToPhys + 25% LigToPhys = 100% EleToPhys.
See also #15 post

[ya1]

See also #15 post

I did the same test (OFF and dw-ing Decree and Warpfire, both with exact same conversion values: 53%) in 1.0.6.1 and the order of conversion depended on the order of equipping those weapons.

[DenisMashutikov]

I did the same test (OFF and dw-ing Decree and Warpfire, both with exact same conversion values: 53%) in 1.0.6.1 and the order of conversion depended on the order of equipping those weapons.

Just tested it again. Resulting damage depends on order of equiping, however initial damage stay same independently of order. Besides, buffs that arranged on same step as equipment (Beronath and Blood orb) ignores order of equipment and applies first always.

[hammyhamster1]

The Elemental conversion is treated as a unique damage type and has its own step in each conversion priority. And in the limited tests I ran, the elemental conversion order seems to be dictated by the equipping order -which likely means the code doesn’t rigorously apply a damage type order in each conversion step.

If elemental and the fire/lit/cold are converted to a single damage type on the same step, there ultimately is no difference. The end result is a multiplicative effect.
The impact is felt if there are competing damage type conversions from elemental and fire/cold/lit. (Competing = multiple damage types).

I wrote a bug report about this a while ago.

[Sotnik]

Do Transmuters convert Weapon damage of the skill? (Discord, for example)

[Kako]

The order of events for Conversion is as follows: Base Skill > Skill Modifiers > Conversion on the Skill or Transmuter > Conversion on Equipment and Buffs > Equipment, Auras and Passives

I get that order, and ir ead through some post which stated ie. skyfire grenado (skill conversion) 80 /20; 20 -> “the new 100%” to calculate with

so im wondering how it works besides skill transmute?

my idea is to make a mortar trap with loads of phys -> fire
(wanted to make it phys first,and combine it with grenado, but there are rarely any transmuters, correct me if im mislead?)

So i went for demo / arca and my idea is to get 1h with 16% phys to fire
=> 16% (and if offhands also have transmuters then additional 16%, but idk if offhands have transmuters, didnt see it and im lvl 40 almost)
2x augment for additional 20% (Main+offhand)
=> 36%
next step is i take the phys to ele from IEE 30% (or 25 idk?)
[also, does it work like 30 phys to fire / light / cold or 10 to each?
=> 46% (66%)

or does it get calculated like:
IEE Converts 30%, 70% phys leftover -> “new 100% to calculate with”
gear converts 16 %, 84% phys leftover -> “new 100% to calculate with”
augments convert 20%, [70-11,2 (from gear)] 58,8%
=>10% cold, 10% lightning, 10% + 11,2% (16% from 70%) + 11,76% [augments ((70-11,2)*2x10%)]

I had hoped there would be better/higher conversions
i saw a rare 2h which had 50% conversion, but thatd mean i wouldnt get my caster offhand ( didnt quite think about math and if its worth it, but i doubt it)

So im coming from poe, and id just pump it up to the max and go for phys/fire alike to get the biggest output, but i just learned (through this thread) that conversion happens somewhere in the middle, so gearstats dont boost physical and ultimately fire.

im just at such a loss because of the confusion over this mechanics and i refuse to check builds etc, because i wanne create my own working build, but i need to understand the mechanics.

Is the whole idea possible ? or is it not really worth the trouble because it wont become “effective” at any point, since i wont reach a high conversion and end up with some hybrid “crap”
full conversion is ultimately what im aiming for but

[Evil_Baka]

Conversion to Elemental like the Physical->Elemental on Iskandra’s Elemental Exchange (IEE) splits the damage three-way between Fire, Cold and Lightning. So for example, 45% Physical converted to Elemental would act as 15% Physical converted to Fire, Cold and Lightning. Note that I said “conversion to Elemental” as conversion from Elemental works differently.

Conversion on IEE or gear (such as weapons or components) falls under Conversion on Equipment and Buffs in the order of conversion so they are totalled and applied at the same time.

I briefly theorised a Mortar Trap Sorcerer here some time ago with the idea of converting all of Mortar Trap’s Physical damage over to Fire, Cold or Lightning but ultimately would not recommend it as there are a number of problems with the idea (hence why I posted it in the dump topic :p) . I would go for Inquisitor or Shaman over Arcanist for a build focused on Mortar Trap.

[Sobertooth]

I get that order, and ir ead through some post which stated ie. skyfire grenado (skill conversion) 80 /20; 20 -> “the new 100%” to calculate with

so im wondering how it works besides skill transmute?

my idea is to make a mortar trap with loads of phys -> fire
(wanted to make it phys first,and combine it with grenado, but there are rarely any transmuters, correct me if im mislead?)

So i went for demo / arca and my idea is to get 1h with 16% phys to fire
=> 16% (and if offhands also have transmuters then additional 16%, but idk if offhands have transmuters, didnt see it and im lvl 40 almost)
2x augment for additional 20% (Main+offhand)
=> 36%
next step is i take the phys to ele from IEE 30% (or 25 idk?)
[also, does it work like 30 phys to fire / light / cold or 10 to each?
=> 46% (66%)

or does it get calculated like:
IEE Converts 30%, 70% phys leftover -> “new 100% to calculate with”
gear converts 16 %, 84% phys leftover -> “new 100% to calculate with”
augments convert 20%, [70-11,2 (from gear)] 58,8%
=>10% cold, 10% lightning, 10% + 11,2% (16% from 70%) + 11,76% [augments ((70-11,2)*2x10%)]

I had hoped there would be better/higher conversions
i saw a rare 2h which had 50% conversion, but thatd mean i wouldnt get my caster offhand ( didnt quite think about math and if its worth it, but i doubt it)

So im coming from poe, and id just pump it up to the max and go for phys/fire alike to get the biggest output, but i just learned (through this thread) that conversion happens somewhere in the middle, so gearstats dont boost physical and ultimately fire.

im just at such a loss because of the confusion over this mechanics and i refuse to check builds etc, because i wanne create my own working build, but i need to understand the mechanics.

Is the whole idea possible ? or is it not really worth the trouble because it wont become “effective” at any point, since i wont reach a high conversion and end up with some hybrid “crap”
full conversion is ultimately what im aiming for but

It works like in your 1st example, and conversion to elemental is divided between the 3 elements and not for each of them so you do get the 46% conversion to fire.

General conversion from physical to other damage types can be found on weapons, shields, components, specific unique amulets and specific profession buffs (limited to IEE from the arcanist for fire). From browsing the items it looks like about 90% conversion from physical to a single type seems to be the maximum with best possible rolls on the gear. Or close to 100% with specific 2h MIs with a rare prefix and using a 15% conversion mastery buff.

[Arulon]

Say I have an item that converts 100% chaos damage to fire damage on Fire strike.

1. Do I understand correctly that any flat chaos damage from WPS would then be converted to fire, if it was triggerd by Fire Strike?

2. What about a devotion proc bound to Fire strike? Would any thing here be converted?

Thanks

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[Evil_Baka]

Say I have an item that converts 100% chaos damage to fire damage on Fire strike.

1. Do I understand correctly that any flat chaos damage from WPS would then be converted to fire, if it was triggerd by Fire Strike?

2. What about a devotion proc bound to Fire strike? Would any thing here be converted?

If you mean the skill modifier on Blazeheart:

Devotion procs definitely won’t. The conversion would have to be global for this.

Pretty sure WPSes won’t either for the same reason.

[stefan429]

question: lets say you are using aegis of menhir and its transmuter that converts fire to acid. lets say you use a creeping ring of scorched ends (the one with burn retal). will that burn retal get converted to poison?

also, for the phoneix constellation burn retal, will it convert?

EDIT: just tested it, they both converted

[klasperstanze]

“Aether and Chaos do not have affiliated DoTs.”
-> as well as Piercing.

[Volek]

Let’s say I have a skill that converts 100% Physical damage to Fire

So you effectively deal 0 Physical damage with that skill.

and then use an item with 100% Phys and 100% Fire damage. Do both apply or just Fire?

Since Equipment is calculated last, and a 100% damage bonus to 0 damage is still 0, only the Fire damage bonus has an actual effect on that skill.

At least that’s how I understood it after reading the OP. Which is a nice overview that I haven’t seen yet, so thanks for the necropost

[ergates]

Why is it so hard to wrap my head around that?

Example:
Righteous Fervor with the Dreeg’s Reproach transmuter converts 100% physical to acid and fire to vitality damage for that skill. From the conversion sequence listed I get that this also affects the % fire damage from Retribution, correct?
But what about e.g. Shattering Smash proc’ing - is that still subject to the conversion from above? If so, only the flat physical and int. trauma damage or the % weapon damage as well? Or are WPS skills largely useless in case of transmuting the replacer skill to a different damage type?

[sir_spanksalot]

No. It doesn’t get converted.

Honestly, this thread only covers the basics about conversion. There’s still so much to it that even seasoned theorycrafters like superfluff, mad_lee, myself, etc. are uncertain about.

So don’t feel bad about your confusion

Or are WPS skills largely useless in case of transmuting the replacer skill to a different damage type?

They aren’t useless. You take them for the multiplicative effect they have on your normal attacks (e.g. storm spread). The base damage is just a nice bonus

[Evil_Baka]

Righteous Fervor with the Dreeg’s Reproach transmuter converts 100% physical to acid and fire to vitality damage for that skill. From the conversion sequence listed I get that this also affects the % fire damage from Retribution, correct?

Yes. As Retribution is a skill modifier, it gets treated as % Vitality damage with the transmuter.

But what about e.g. Shattering Smash proc’ing - is that still subject to the conversion from above?

As far as I know no. Righteous Fervor’s conversion won’t touch WPS procced on top of it.

[sir_spanksalot]

Just bumping the image posted here by @korsar. It’s honestly super useful.

[Volek]

It’s honestly super useful.

It’s quite useful, but the order of conversion is missing. So here’s my super useful edit

[sir_spanksalot]

Order of conversion is covered in OP mate