Nope, it work the opposite way. Because we have unrestricted instant Life leech there is no other way to make game challenging w/o burst dmg. Ppl pick ADCTH - game is too easy. Crate add burst. dmg. Ppl whine “melee imposibru”, Crate buff character dmg. Game too easy. Crate add debuffs to nemesis to cut down player dmg. etc etc.
Yes, an isolated nerf to ghoul would only have negative impact on survival. I wouldn’t expect many people to advocate for such a change by itself though.
I actually proposed the removal of phys res on ghoul in the OP because if Behemoth was buffed and had significant defensive stat on it too then people might simply take both procs. Since they would be on separate CD, the defensive capability might be too much even if it cost more devotion points.
I think there are some ways this might be countered. Adding modest % life reduction resistance to Behemoth, as well as the other buffs, to deal with bursts would be sensible. I suspect Behemoth will always be a ways behind Ghoul in terms of healing per second. Ghoul is a gutsy proc that often requires constant attacking to heal whereas behemoth proc is purely passive and a person could kite and continue to regen. The advantage to going with the gutsy skill must remain otherwise no one would take it anymore, but equally builds that take behemoth need to be able to deal with burst damage with the weaker regen they have.
So basically, what you’re saying is that the balancing solutions we get to a certain issue just create another balancing problem. Like this is a chess game between players and devs and the devs always get the first move. I agree that this trend is noticeable. This is likely what Fluff was referring to when he wrote about the deeper issues.
Not like i’m blaming Crate, we often overlook the amount of work needed in this game and the fact that they may not have enough manpower. Especially when working on new content. This is just to put things in perspective, not defending the way things turned out with the meta. I hope some serious, from the roots up, balancing will take place, in the near future. Then again, Crate has other projects too. Realistically, i can see this being solved only by the community, first trough these sort of discussions and later trough modding.
Well, Superfluff said something like “If it ain´t broken why fix it?”.
Nobody really cared about Ghoul in the last years. It was a lifesaver for Crucible Builds, but for HC players and perhaps even casuals playing camapign only, too. Nothing fancy about it.
Adoomgod (rightfully) mentioned that there is a certain lack in build diversity because nearly every endgame build now has Ghoul. (In my opinion it not because of GH alone; other than Wolverine there aren´t a lot of nice T1 defensive devotions for all damage types and masteries).
So, what do you want?
Nerf-Bat with players upset and forced to seek different solutions?
Or incentives to take other devotions which are equal to Ghoul?
Sure, there is always the problem if a lot of players choose both devotions and this becomes OP
Just a reminder:
Runebound Topaz wasn´t nerfed. Bloody Crystal and Blazing Ruby were made better. 
Nobody in the history of ever has ever done this in any game ever. Ever. You are an idiot.
No need to be rude.
Heated discussions are sometimes the salt in the soup but when it gets personal, it never ends well. :undecided:
If only the Devotions would follow suit. Not that it’d be so easy.
Btw, @Fluff and @Adoomgod: i guess it’s safe to asume that the new healing effects increased by x% is not enough to make health regen devotions competitive with Ghoul? I mean, i know that AdctH is also subject to this bonus, so in the end Ghoul may be the more attractive choice, but i was wondering if this thing can be an alternative, at least for the more casual players? And if so, to what extent? Ofc, if this is something you can talk about before FG release.
Let us behave, children.
Actually, we do have players that make honest reports like that, which is very welcome.
I suppose those players care the most about a healthy game balance rather than hoarding broken combinations to themselves (something something tree falls in the woods…).
I think I would do it without 2nd thoughts if there was anything which I feel OP. Because I believe in “Quid pro quo” here in Grim Dawn between Devs and players.
I don´t feel a problem with “healthy game balance” in case of Ghoul. I´m afraid there will be a shift in balance with a hefty Ghoul nerf (without compensation) because some very good builds won´t be effected and others truly would get hurt.
Ghoul’s strengths:
- T1 and is easily accessible for any build (one red to enter)
- it provides an excellent survival proc
- the nodes aren’t bad for T1 imho, either- : physical stat +defense (close to that of eel constellation) + 4%adcth + %health,
- it provides very good colors (3) for a number of desireable T3s such as Dead God, Aeon, Ultos, SoH, etc. After which you only need find up to 5 more reds.
All for 5 devotion points.
Not surprising it is in a large majority of builds. I didn’t use it that much to avoid stagnation, but I almost always throw it into a theory-craft to avoid the inevitable suggestion to add it.
I personally think it should only give back one red, but I’m sure there would be great outcry about 90% of the ghoul builds being broken due to the loss of the 3 red colors for building certain T3s.
I think it is OP, but I don’t know how it could be fixed. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
No devotion give only one affinity point for just one color. At the least it gives a point to two colors.
players take the constellation of the ghoul, not because it is OP, but because everything else is a shit compared to him.
Before nerfing / changing the ghoul, work on other constellations. Give us other opportunities for survival.
And then in the game there will be one meta - shields. They will walk in deep shards, and the rest will walk near the entrance.
Health Regen is not affected by % Increased Healing. %-based health recovery, however, is.
Ah, i see. Was the decision to leave regen out made because it would have led to balancing issues? That’s my only guess. Still, doesn’t seem so bad.
Would it have broken something to include regeneration in that new stat? I can’t think of something right now, but perhaps testing has thrown up something I suppose. Otherwise it feels like a missed opportunity to me.
It would double-dip otherwise. :eek:
Same here. Could be that while testing they reached the conclusion that it can be abused trough stacking bonuses… Unless that was the case, yeah, missed opportunity.
edit: @ Ptiro: I get it now, that makes sense
What would the numbers look like if it did double dip? I mean regeneration is hardly a valid strategy right now, would it reach 5k or more regen? Unless it does, I don’t see the problem to be honest.
you can already get 4k regen now
You can reach 11k regen right now if you wanted.
Wouldn’t kill things worth a damn though.