An argument for Inquisitor seal

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
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I had a lot to say on the subject, but I’ll try real hard to keep it short. TL;DR at the end

It’s no secret that Inquisitor, as a mastery, isn’t featured as prominently in end-game builds as some of the others. The game has changed a lot over the years. Forgotten gods introduced the Oathkeeper (And Vire’s might) along with the movement augments. Then followed the evade action, meant to counterbalance the sunder mechanics, making the game a lot more fluid, mobile and dynamic.

However, one of the mainstay of the Inquisitor skillset is how STATIC it is.
Inquisitor seal, while very powerful, requires you to stay in one place, same for flames of Ignafar.
Same goes for AA builds: while melee builds will move from target to target, the benefit (or curse) of ranged attacks is that you want to stay put and put as much lead downfield without having to move, so you’ll likely remain in place as much as possible.
The 2 runes don’t need you to stay put necessarily, but they also have a certain inflexibility in their application, requiring you to wait for their activation, and to move in predictable ways to herd enemies to their AoE.

Inquisitor seal in particular embodies that playstyle. Inquisitor seal is and should be the “main” skill for the mastery (Like Pneumatic burst is for Nightblade or Presence of virtue for Oathkeeper). It is VERY functional and iconic of the archetype, and ties every playstyle proposed by the mastery together, while offering a host of conditional bonuses that make it extremely versatile in fonction (if not in form). It has damage bonus, crit bonus, a defensive component, deals damage directly, can apply DR, It even helps supports retaliation and health regen even though the mastery otherwise doesn’t. It also has a LOT of gear options to make it do all sorts of cool things.

Suffice to say, it should be the main selling point of the mastery. But it somehow isn’t.

Because it’s too small.

Nowadays if you’re facing something powerful, you have a dilemma: use evade to dodge its sundering attack, or stay put to keep benefitting from the aura.

You also want to apply the seal on enemies that are close to you as well as to yourself, to benefit from the rebuke portion, so you’ll have to cast it at least twice, and if the enemies move, you’ll have to reposition them, and if the enemy spawns damage zones, you’ll have to move enough that you’ll have to cast it again. All that makes for ineffective gameplay, so that just kiting might just become more effective.

So, after all that rambling, here’s my suggestion to fix both inquisitor seal, and the inquisitor mastery as a whole:
Make inquisitor seal diameter increase with rank.

How big ?
Big enough (at max rank) so that if you sit on the edge, you can evade to the opposite end and still be inside.
Big enough so that if you cast it on yourself, anything that tries to get near you is also automatically affected.
Big enough so if there is a damage pool on you, you can move slightly to avoid it while remaining within the seal.

Right now its a fixed 3.8 meters.

I’d say it should start at about 3 meters, and grow to about 6.5 meters at 12/12 rank. And maybe get to 7 meters by 22/12 (this is very rough, but should give you an idea of what I’m thinking)

Maybe the cooldown could be increased to compensate ?

The other numbers don’t need fixing: Inq. Seal is a powerhouse of buffs, defense layers and offensive potential. it’s totally fine as it is on that front, as it should be. And that should tell you enough about how awkward to use it has become that for all its strengths, it’s not considered one of the premiere skills in the game.

But as it is, Inquisitor seal is simply incompatible with the new sunder mechanics, and doesn’t mesh well with the new mobility the game offers, and I think this not only hurts the skill, but also the whole mastery because of it.

It will still foster the same KIND of gameplay, but allowing a bit of wiggle room (literally) would make it a better choice to make.

I love Inquisitor seal, both narratively and mechanically: I think it’s iconic, it carries a lot of cool tropes has a very recognizable graphic imagery and interesting gameplay applications. It should be synonymous with the mastery itself. Sadly, I find myself not using it, or even modifying my builds to avoid it, while it should be something that you WANT to use.

Thanks for reading :slight_smile:

TL;DR
Inquisitor seal should be bigger to match the increased mobility in the game and to make it less awkward to use.

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I think it’s relatively easy to reduce the CD for Inquisitor Seal especially with the Transmuter change for 2handed Melee or Ranged users.

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Besides that Bonemonger helm and Panetti’s wand each reduce it by 3 seconds. So having 1 or 2 second CD is pretty solid I think.

Offhand users get CD reduction too.

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Yeah, there are multiple ways to make Inq. Seal not as bad, and reducing its cooldown is one of them, but it seems to me that from a design standpoint, it should be more convenient to use out of the box while keeping your gear options open. :slight_smile:

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Thank you for perfect description, why I don’t use Inquisitor Seal as I tend to create ranged builds mostly. @DeputyChuck

The same issue you have described in the OP, I perceive with Runes of Hagarrad and Runes of Kalastor.

Other option, than “enlarging” the circular area of Inquisitor Seal, is to make it move with you and/or enemy it is targeted … maybe ?

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gonna nitpick some stuff, just because

not really true, and partially ties in to the next

not really true

“this depends entirely how you use it/play/pilot your character”

for argument sake we can say to make this “easier”/simplifying out piloting seal needs to be bigger and lower cooldown, but what you’re pointing at is already something we are doing or can do

and that’s just false/way over exaggerating

perhaps there is a reason the “rest of us”/many other people are still taking it, and praising it?
Perhaps this is more of a player/piloting issue “i can’t figure out how to unify this approach” - because

TLDR
GD simulator :scorv:

*doesn’t mean it couldnt’ get a bit of range bump, it def could could get a lil increase
but i feel like the issues are way blown out

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I don’t think so. As it is right now, evading will take you out of the range of Inquisitor seal.
Sure… you can have a second one ready at the spot you will land, but that’s pretty inconvenient don’t you think ?

In other words “get gud” ?
Not really the constructive criticism you have accustomed us to in your typical interventions.

If I am struggling with making good use of the skill, then likely I’m not the only one to do so. The fact that you don’t perceive this as a problem is only as relevant as it is reflective (or not) of the rest of the player base.

If I end up being the only one who thinks that Inquisitor seal’s size made more sense before evade was a thing, then I rest my case. But I’d wager good money that this is a relatively widely shared sentiment.

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no, but give things a more thorough look or reassess things other than immediately claim it broken

perhaps the best example i can give was the top20 test builds using seal
i am notorious for playing top20 “incorrect”, i don’t multi tank bosses like they should to get peak performance out of them (too uncomfortable/nervous), and i also in vast majority of cases don’t eat sunder/i wastefully evade sunder; but i still use inquis seal

Many of my own builds even relies on inquis seal, now, according to you, this should not be, since Sunder destroys that and is “incompatible” with seal/sunder interaction

not necessarily

no?,
why is that an issue, you can have 3 seals out for a reason, use them if you can’t figure out how to place seals to cover things statically.
Why would you be fine with recasting mines for RR but not recast/have multiple seals out for protection coverage? recast war cry for DR/recast debuffs etc

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Have I claimed such thing ?
This is an “ideas and feedback” section. I don’t need to have an objective measuring stick for my opinion to have any value: I’m relaying my game experience and giving feedback on what I think would make a skill more user-friendly for a wider range of players and builds. The devs are free to dismiss my suggestion of course.

To me, the game would be better overall with this change, not because Inquisitor seal is “downright unusable” … but because it’s very inconvenient to use properly, especially now that Evade and Sunder are part of the game.

Of course inquisitor seal isn’t “broken”
But it seems clear that the additional awkwardness in its use introduced by sunder and evade highlight the slightly dated design behind that skill.

Wind devils didn’t NEED to be permanent either, and anyone could whip up the same argument of “you just have to use it as intended”

But I’m sure glad they changed it… because the game is ever so slightly more fun now because of it.

Hey, if you don’t like the suggestion and you think Inquisitor seal is BETTER as it is now, then that’s a totally valid position. But I don’t think what you’ve brought up so far invalidates my suggestion.

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“incompatible” - among other exaggerations :sweat_smile:

→

^this is what i think

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If it did that, it would become more like any other buffs or debuffs in the game. I think being set in place is part of what makes seal what it is, and the whole “inquisitor creates a circle of protection against demons” is a classic fantasy trope that is better served but Seal’s current form.

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There are degrees to that term of course. But semantically you’re right.

Let’s just say that they aren’t AS compatible as I would like them to, or think they should. And since evade and sunder are part of the core gameplay, that … lack of alignment (for lack of a better term) hurts it disproportionately compared to most other skills in the game.

Alright, fair enough.

When relaying a problem or concern to an audience (such as here) good communication practices is to emphasise the part that is perceived as problematic, and while I might have not picked the best term here using “incompatible”, it does serve its purpose in conveying the relationship between those 2 things fairly clearly (if maybe a little too dramatically) So I will leave it as is in my OP for clarity’s sake.

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i think the main issue is that you seemingly think it’s unreasonable that we have to recast a static more than once; when we kinda always benefitted from that/“imo it’s not really that unreasonable”.
And i think it’s then unreasonable to want it to be so huge you don’t “ever” have to recast it more.

Seal is a sorta positional element, not really in terms of dmg(rebuke - rebuke sucks since doesn’t stack), but like, we plop seal down 2-3 places so we have safespots to move to. This was kinda still the case before sunder/when we still had to reposition before or move out of certain old attacks (Meteor, clusters, pool, shotguns/swipes)

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want “the same” seal more guaranteed still covering us when we evade through a boss, assumption being we’ve placed the seal “on” the boss, and seal might reach us before evade in its static location, “thus when boss doesn’t move/seal stays in place it should also reach us on the other side”. And it does do that on small bosses, but on fatties like Kuba or Titanvore the hitbox can kinda swallow the entire seal and it becomes more micromanaging on the player side to attempt to position right(if at all depending on the model)
^this was the same reason Ulo got radius increase, so i don’t think the same argument is unfair for Seal - but 7m radius might be a tad too much/“lazy” :sweat_smile: - casting 2 seals once in a while is not unfair

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What is the overall idea or emotion behind your opening post? @DeputyChuck
You want to use Inqui Seals, but you are not happy how they work, or they don’t help you / perform as you thought they would be?

Or if the Inqui Seals disappointed you, you can use other skills (not necesarilly the Inquisitor ones)… I personally don’t think Inqui Seals are the encore of the Inquisitor… :slight_smile:

But fair point of yours that this is “ideas and feedback” and your idea is as valid as the other ideas, no matter how many “followers” your idea has.

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Aura of Censure.

DR and disruption plus it damages enemies as it moves with you. With Radaggan’s set it can heal you too. :sunglasses:

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Less “unreasonable” than “inconvenient”
My point is mainly that it’s an awkward skill to use, and not that it’s unusable.

To put it another way: right now I don’t like using it because I think it’s awkward, and I wish I did.

Yeah, maybe it is. I’m unsure what it actually would look like in-game. I just measured what I think an evade action looks like it travels and … yeah. Obviously I don’t get to decide the size.

If Crate agrees with me but thinks … 5m is plenty,. then it’s at least that.

Most Area skills in the game are bigger than that, and seal is one of the smallest… while being the one that has both offensive and defensive effects (So would be useful in more places). It’s also one of the very few that doesn’t increase in size as you increase rank. And since neither rebuke or the defensive properties stack, then there is no reason to fear for game balance in having bigger seals

Also, if you focus on seal enough that you get it to 22/12, I think you should be able to see a kickass BIG seal around your character :slight_smile:

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The overall “vibe” of my suggestion is that Seal is a very cool skill, and it’s very powerful… but it is pretty bothersome and awkward skill to actually use. If it was bigger, it would not make it that much stronger… but it would make it much easier to use strategically. It’s a bit of a pain to stop what you’re doing to lay down yet another seal because you moves 3 feet.

It’s basically the same reason I was so glad then they made wind devil permanent. It wasn’t a problem per se… but constantly re-casting them was bothersome… and now it’s very fun.

In short, it’s a QoL thing :slight_smile:

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i think it should be in the form of a temporary aura instead of a circle

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It would just be another Blood of Dreeg then…

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somewhat, but what about if the circle moves with you to where you would want to go if you play a ranged build

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I mean… that’s a fundamental redesign of the skill, and would need a lot of balancing. And 10 years into the game’s existence I’m not sure that change would make sense (or even be desirable)

A simple change to its radius would alleviate some of the more awkward aspects of the skill without needing to balance anything else about it.