Look, i’m not trying to take one side in this Argument, but i find it rather curious and interesting, that in one Hand the GD Community expect that everyone accept every Kind of Playstyle. People GD-Stash? No Problem it’s Grim Dawn after all, you can do what you want. People use tons of Mods? No Problem either because it’s Grim Dawn after all. It’s okay if everyone have his own playstyle and the way he want to play… except if it comes down to Multiplayer, than People get rude, make fun about it etc… and justify their behaviour with this “but this Game is focused on Singleplayer anyway”. Yet i’ve to point out one of the Reasons, why this Genre even exist in the first Place and why this genre have become so popular overall the past 23 Years. Not saying there isn’t also a huge portion of Folks who won’t and can’t enjoy it solo, but Multiplayer is a Part of it’s appeal and why it was so successfull in the first place. And if you look at as example Torchlight Series, which might still have sold on release 500k copies but a majority of peope said like “The Game was great, but it misses Multiplayer” and than look at Torchlight 2, which had Multiplayer and sold over 2 Millions at Release, it kinda bothers me that people still try to discredit Multiplayer (as much as it bothers me if it’s the other extrem too like PoE or D3 with it’s forced online and MP Focus… i’m more a fan of the D1+2 Classic vibes where everything was in the middle and everyone could enjoy for themself how he wants to play). I played a big Portion of the Game solo, that’s true, but it still doesn’t change that the most Fun i had with GD was via Multiplayer with friends, and after Torchlight i wouldn’t have bought another Hack’n’Slay if they would’ve cutted the MP entirely. (And that counts vica versa as well, some of my Friends still can’t get it work in their brains that i most likely won’t even start Lost Ark with them, simply because it’s online only and for that alone the game already failed for me).
Not saying that Grim Dawn wouldn’t have profit from “closed” dedicated Servers, but there needs a certain Point (and that’s why some of this people here are so frustrated) where People like you have the accept the fact that dedicated Servers won’t happen for GD, for one because of “priorities” for another one that they simply didn’t have the ressources for Dedicated Servers.
Still i’d argue Multiplayer can be great for Grim Dawn, if you simply play with friends and people you trust(if “legit” MP is your issue).
Which is the other extreme which bothers me. While we both have a different opinion about D3 in general it seems. The thing which you call out as the best aspect about Diablo 3 is infact for me the absolute worst about Diablo 3 next to the (RM)AH (which atleast he latter one they’ve gotten rid already…) and if it’s not for the Console-Version, Diablo 3 would never had a chance to land on my top 3 Favorites HNS of all Time. Diablo 2 should’ve been your example, because Diablo 2 could fullfill everyones desires. You could play it solo or multiplayer with your solo chars in LAN or open server… or more hackfree in closed servers of Battlenet. And its sad to see that an 1998 Game knew how it’s done right and than see how nowdays many of this Games needs to be forced down to your throat with online-only.
@LightningYu I know the story about ARPGs and that you appreciate playing MP and trading etc. But there are still many who plays these kinda games single player (Diablo 2 single player is possibly more popular than ever before for instance). I think it is kinda nice that for once there is an ARPG where the single player and “do what da fuq you want” is encouranged. In other ARPGs its like “oh shit we perhaps need some single player mode” “oh crap people are botting and buying items and chars on ebay that is not good but we can’t stop it”.
Look, PoE is still (?) not possible to download and play offline. So they are missing something too that they can’t offer a good offline experience (some might disagree with me here that it is possible to play it solo, albeit online).
And just because a genre started out a certain way, doesn’t mean it can’t evolve into different sub-genres and preferences. Grim Dawn is perfect for me, mostly since its a single player non-competitive game. Why does all ARPG’s have to go in the same directions? We have had tons of suggestions like “can’t you implement paragons like in D3”, “can’t you make random maps like in Diablo 2”, “can’t you make this that they have in PoE”… if this was to be pushed to its limits, we would have no differences in these games.
The times I have played MP in GD, it did not feel balanced or fair - there was no challenge. I would enjoy it more if it was more balanced, and that is something that can be done “pretty easy”. So for me, the issue is not dedicated servers and prevention of “cheats” but more the actual gameplay balance in it self.
Because i’d argue, that cutting features which was Part since the “origins” of this Genre, isn’t really “Evolving” but kind of devolving. I love Diablo and the Genre over many other genres, simply because the whole concept itself, and that reflects within Grim Dawn as well, is build around the possibility to play it either solo or mutliplayer, that’s something which won’t work for every game or atleast in the same extent. Imagine an proper Singleplayer RPG like Gothic with Multiplayer? It wouldn’t work simply because the whole concept and the way it’s delievered wouldn’t fit with Mutliplayer. However Multiplayer is part of it’s spirit. You will hardly hear any complaints about missing multiplayer in proper RPG’s or Singleplayer Games in general, but playing an HnS with no Multiplayer like Torchloight you get this feeling from the Game itself, due multiplayer is part of the spirit of this subgenre. And if we stay at RPG’s, it does needs Games like Divinity Original Sin (2) which needs the specifically design multiplayer into their the game so it fits… for diablo-esque Games it works, even if you Argument of “balancing” issues went to it… even if the game isn’t challenging enough as in singleplayer… it still feels right and is fun to play.
And even further down to road… it’s not neccessary means that i, friends and / or family play this Games alll time… it’s quite the opposite - GD for the past month i play more solo than mp… but it’s the fact i could play multiplayer if i want too, even more with the character which i’ve, which adds an immense value to the game and fits GD-Agenda of playing how you want. Things like Dedicated Server, and your Argument of “Balancing” is only the icing on the cake. I had a blast to play through Torchlight 1 for the first time, but i never touched it again afterwars … torchlight 2 however i still play from time to time, even if its often solo - simply because of the possibility that a friend could theoretically join if he wants to…
(And i’ve to point out, my Argument goes other way around too… even if the focus is multiplayer in certain HnS - most of them you can enjoy fully solo as well. If you compare that to MMORPG’s, that’s one of the strenght of HNS as well…)
/Edit: However maybe we should kinda stop here. This Topic is about Dedicated Servers… and that won’t happen anyway.
well, D2’s RWM or even just adding the old menu theme is a lot less intrusive and lets you play your main campaign characters with it, no need for custom games where the dev console is enabled by default.
Features don’t come out of vacuum. Resources are not infinite.
Something else would have had to give for something you do not have to exist. It’s not like we would magically have more staff to add (and support) dedicated servers, nevermind their upkeep costs. Who on the team would not have been hired to make this happen? What would be missing now if that were the case. You can go down the rabbit hole of cascading consequences, but the bottom line is: it was not feasible for a team of our size and resources then, and it does not make sense to add it retroactively. Not to mention it would have made us bump heads with competing games focused on MP, which would not necessarily have been in our favor.
Well i am not a game developer myself i’m coming from the web- and app development area so i surely understand that it’ll require expertise and resources and i also know that it’s a major challenge with a huge burnout potential the smaller the team is since i work most of the time on my own without freelancers so i totally know first hand how coding and designing can suck you literally dry, i also don’t have the slightest clue about trade- and profit margins in the gaming industry but you guys sold plenty of copies and as you said your team is kinda small so why no reinvestment? Is it so unprofitable to reinvest?
Have you guys also ever thought about to sell a seperate GD version tied to steamguard with removed mod and hack support and a locked loot table (unique item ID’s) ? Or do i miss here anything important?
Because as Zantai has said before that sort of multiplayer support needs to be built in right at the start of development.
25th May 2018 stream:
“As the question comes up all the time I will answer it one more time on stream. Dedicated servers would be a cool feature. I think if we were to have it, it would have to have happened when the game was new, when we could actually garner attention for the game and get people excited for the fact there are dedicated servers, there are seasons and all these hardcore multiplayer features. Instead we focussed on a single player experience, that is ultimately what Grim Dawn is about and we’re sticking to that, it’s working well for us. I think dedicated servers would be great, they will not happen for this game. Maybe Grim Dawn 2.”
"5th October 2018 stream:
FiskeJR :Are there any plans for “closed online servers” like in D2?
Zantai_GD :no, that is something that would have needed to happen when the game was new"
I haven’t even talked about dedicated servers, jfyi. my thread which i’ve started initially had been merged by a mod into this thread, i also closed my last reply to Zantai with a completely different solution approach so i really don’t understand your reply in this context since i never asked explicitly for “dedicated servers”, how should that even go afterwards without completely rewriting a major chunk of the whole game?
Is it impossible and bank breaking to run the game command line only to launch a multiplayer game that friends can join? I’f I launch the game on another computer, and then just minimize it, it’s running, but without the 3d environment.
I think some people are misunderstanding what I mean by dedicated servers. I don’t want you guys hosting any servers or anything like that. So I’m not sure where extra upkeep costs comes from. I just want a server only client I can run that doesn’t launch the 3d game, just the portion that users need to connect and play, I’ve done more testing just minimizing the game on another computer and me and my friend both joining it.
Why not half-ass it as well and let me log in and host a multiplayer game through command line? Could a mod be made to do just that?
I bought the game through steam, I can’t run the game on multiple computers for more than 5 minutes with steam family share.
That is the biggest reason I asked about a dedicated server, Maybe I should have asked for server files and that would have made more sense. lol it wouldn’t even be an issue if it didn’t tank my performance.
Hosting the game while playing more than halves my frame-rate in some cases.
I bought the game through steam, so I cannot just install it on both computers. Otherwise I would just do that.
I just want a legal way to do this.