Are "on attack" devotions good in and of themselves?

Just wondering:

What percentage of a typical character’s damage output comes from attack devotions ?
If those devotions were skills, assuming the same damage and cooldown (but disregarding proc chance) would they be worth investing in ?
In other words, are there devotions that are worth building around if you were to find a way to have them proc reliably and consistently ? …Or are they just a nice extra bit of damage and nothing more ?

And if they are, which would deserve that level of attention ? (regardless of damage type)

there are several dmg devos that add a lot of dmg, vanilla or converted
examples could be Bull Rush, Blade’s of Wrath, Azrakaa, Ulzad as pierce build, Blind Fury, Fissure, Aetherfire, Flame Torrent, etc etc etc etc
depends on the build, trigger/utilization and ex conversion
things with relative low CD or stackable dmg usually adds up, things that shotgun, or things that just have high uptime and high dmg.
ex fissure can deal so much dmg it can sometimes be worth to take it even as non-fire dmg build, if you have conversion, and if it doesn’t sacrifice too many devos to reach
then you have aetherfire that just stacks ontop it self, so with a good proccer you can have multiple flames on the same target
but it also depends on the scenario, certain things/triggers can equate to much less dmg output in ex a single target fight like SR bossroom, than compared to Cruci or SR chunks/general aoe fights

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Thanks for the examples, that helps. I was sleeping on some of those (for example, Flame torrent looked weak to me at first glance)

Besides Aetherfire, which ones do you know that are “stackable” ?

Here’s a good example of what I’m wondering.

If fissure was a class skill, would you sink points into it and maybe try to build around it ?
Would it be good enough to be your “main skill” ?
Assuming the same damage and cooldown
Let’s say for the sake of argument that instead of a proc chance, you just point and click and it works.

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Azrakaa, Fissure, Flame torrent, whirlpool, tempest “kind of”(requires CDR), Guardiands Gaze(tho that’s more for sustain/lifesteal), aand feel like i’m spacing out on a couple :thinking:

you can’t really compare them like that, because their dmg/effect is balanced around their cooldowns and proc chance
as closest example to fissure we have Ravenous Earth, which functionally is the same type of skill, just diff dmg types and cooldown, - and there exist plenty RE builds
Fissure is strong because it shotguns, has decent duration compared to cooldown, so you can have multiple up at same time, this paired with its dmg amount makes it overall a very strong proc/skill,
^hence why i mentioned it can sometimes be worth even to include on non-fire builds provided you have conversion and don’t sacrifice too many devos to reach

as counter example we can take Blades of Wrath, it’s also a shotgun, an immensely strong on, both single target and aoe
but it’s much more finicky conversion-wise and devotion point affinity-wise to include in a non pierce/phys/“right side devotion” build, which is why it’s not exactly often included in builds leaning towards diff damage types

likewise aetherfire is strong, but you don’t often go half aether half fire dmg, so you need high conversion on one of the damage types into the other (or both into a 3rd)

it sorta goes for most devotions, you need to be able to decently utilize the dmg type to make the cost worth it, since they usually aren’t cheap for a reason, given their high dmg potential. But when you can, you pretty much almost always want them, sole exception being the devo cost/route becomes too sacrificial in terms of other stats or bonus dmg, ex being that flame torrent can often be seen skipped on some fire builds, where ex Bat/twin fangs or phoenix or a 3rd diff might be more desirable overall

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Yeah, I know, but humour me for a second ok ? :stuck_out_tongue:

for the sake of argument, Let’s say we came up with a gear and skill combination that gives 100% proc chance on fissure with the same cooldown as fissure…

So every 1.2-1.3 seconds (accounting for CDR), you would have fissure go off, reliably

… would it be strong enough to build around in any way ?
Assuming we’re making a fire build or have enough conversion

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again, apples and potatoes
you don’t build around a devotion like that, you include it because it’s beneficial or massively great for your build
no devo skill alone can be compared to a skill and built around in the same sense, regardless of 100% proc chance (inb4 someone comes up with that 1 or 2 examples that has happened over 5 years)
and proc skills/granted skills from items/gear are hugely different than devo skills in dmg department, and you don’t built around proc skills unless you’re memeing, which has happened

you don’t make a build solely around fissure, you include it because you can and because it helps/is good
you’re trying to make something into general relativity when all you need to do is make chocolate chip cookies

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Yeah, I get it. I was just wondering. Sometimes that’s the kind of insight that gets me thinking outside the box.

(For the record, I am theorycrafting a Judgement build where the cooldown is down to 0.5 seconds.
75% fissure proc chance on multiple targets (+ a 15% proc chance with a Heart of wrath tick between each castings if it doesn’t go off) every 0.5 seconds… I was just wondering how best to use this. )

Thanks for indulging my curiosity :slight_smile:

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in my experience HoW keeps the judgment proc chance
and it’s not the proc chance you’re fighting most in most devotion skill’s cases, that’s usually easy to come around, it’s their cooldown
so you rather wanna check your devo skills proc CD against your trigger skill’s CD or uptime
which ex makes judgment+how a neat thing, if ex one doesn’t have volcanic stride

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@tqFan tested this and Heart of wrath doesn’t inherit Judgement’s proc chance as it is a “secondary skill” just like Volcanic stride.
According to @MysteryMeat What makes volcanic stride such a reliable proccer is that the flame patches are layering so that multiple of them are hitting at once, not because they have higher proc chance.

Heart of wrath doesn’t do that, but at 75% proc chance every 0.5 seconds for the main hit, it doesn’t really have to, it’s just a nice little extra tic

Unless there is another stacking, low cooldown attack, long range devotion that has a low enough cooldown to benefit this setup… I tried Bull rush, but it’s limited in range. so is Flame torrent.

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dont’ make me retest things just because i got weird RNG or something on HoW :confounded:

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My own testings, while not really extensive, showed me the same thing (very high level of confirmation bias notwithstanding)

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doing elemental storm i keep getting it to proc on ST with how
granted it might just be weird rng again with 25% native proc chance even if not using judgment 100%, but still, seems weird the uptime if so

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I tested with aetherfire (75% on Judgement, 15% on HoW technically) because it doesn’t have a cooldown, so would have a chance to proc every single tick. Granted, I would not be able to see stacked procs, but there were enough non-procs to make me think it was much lower than 75%

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Well I simply tested Bat with Judgment 100% chance some time ago.
And HoT only some times proc Bat on its 1st and 2nd tick
First proc was always happening.

I can record it if needed :slight_smile:

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Yeah, bat is a good candidate: low cooldown, easy to see proc and if it’s 100% on the main skill, and non-proc indicates that HoW has lower than 100% chance

I also tested with bull rush, and also got less than 100% procs on HoW, but it’s not as easy to see

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easier to see with Bat for sure
just seems weird those extra 5% on elemental storm should fall so much in HoW favor it gives reliable uptime :joy:

Here’s a little thing I made for myself
Could be useful

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Imma record it, w8

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no need, confirmed with bat>crown, way easier to see with that proc

just confirms fissure on VM > Judgment again imo :sweat_smile:

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Well, anything on VM is awesome, the trails hit 6x per second minimum, so no matter the proc chance, it’s very reliable.

The only skills I have found to be on that level are SBoE, transmuted Stun jacks (when geared out to have 8-9 projectiles), EoR, and Judgement, since it has high natural proc chance but can have its cooldown lowered significantly.

Haven’t tested everything obviously though…

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