Best components to use for DW pierce?

[petrivanzyl]

What is the best components to use for a DW pierce build?

There are basically 3 options:
Vicious Spikes = 4 flat pierce, 4% crit, +18% pierce + aura with 50 flat piece and +75% pierce

Blessed Whetstone = increase the pierce conversion by 50%

Haunted Steel = 8% ADctH, but with 10% physical damage converted to Vitality

Blades of Nadaan increases the pierce conversion by 100%

1. With a Dermapteran Slicers and Blades of Nadaan. There will be 100% weapon pierce damage. If I use a Haunted Steel, will the pierce only by 10% or will there be no physical damage to be converted to vitality i.e. which comes first, the pierce conversion or the vitality conversion?

2. With a weapon with say 25% pierce, with Blades of Nadaan that will be 50% (25% x (1 + 100%). If I add Blessed Whetstone will it be 62.5% pierce (25% x (1 + 150%) or 100% (25% x (1 + 50%)) x (1 + 100%))?

3. Will the Blessed Whetstone in one weapon impact the pierce conversion in the other i.e. with Blades of Nadaan = +150%? If both weapons (non slicers) have a Blessed Whetstone, will both benefits from +200% pierce conversion?

4. With a base damage of less than 100 for most 1h weapons, will the increased pierce conversion % of Blessed Whetstone ever be able to match the 54 flat pierce from Vicious Spikes?

It seems the optimal components would be Haunted Steel in a Slicer and Vicious Spikes in a non-slicer? In other words Vicious Spikes is better in all instances than a Blessed Whetstone?

If no ADctH is required two Vicious Spikes? That would add 108 flat pierce to each weapon?

[KoalaeiO]

1. Vitality conversion will happen first, so you end up with 10% vitality and 90% pierce.

2. 25% (1+150%)

3. No idea, this is an interesting question that comes back often but I never remember the answer.

4. The aura shows a value scaled by your various %pierce bonus while the base damage of the weapon is not scaled, so you are comparing apples and oranges. Vicious Spikes actually grant 4+10 piercing damage so conversion should always be better, especially because it also affects your spells.

[JoV]

What is the best components to use for a DW pierce build?

There are basically 3 options:
Vicious Spikes = 4 flat pierce, 4% crit, (Are you sure?) +18% pierce + aura with 50 flat (its 10 flat pierce iirc) piece and +75% pierce

Blessed Whetstone = increase the pierce conversion by 50% -Yes, on both hands

Haunted Steel = 8% ADctH, but with 10% physical damage converted to Vitality -Yes

Blades of Nadaan increases the pierce conversion by 100%

1. With a Dermapteran Slicers and Blades of Nadaan. There will be 100% weapon pierce damage. If I use a Haunted Steel, will the pierce only by 10% or will there be no physical damage to be converted to vitality i.e. which comes first, the pierce conversion or the vitality conversion? - 10% phys dmg will be converted to vitality, conversion to pierce occurs last

2. With a weapon with say 25% pierce, with Blades of Nadaan that will be 50% (25% x (1 + 100%). If I add Blessed Whetstone will it be 62.5% pierce (25% x (1 + 150%) or 100% (25% x (1 + 50%)) x (1 + 100%))? - Yes

3. Will the Blessed Whetstone in one weapon impact the pierce conversion in the other i.e. with Blades of Nadaan = +150%? If both weapons (non slicers) have a Blessed Whetstone, will both benefits from +200% pierce conversion? - Yes, Blessed W impacts both hand armor piercing ratio

4. With a base damage of less than 100 for most 1h weapons, will the increased pierce conversion % of Blessed Whetstone ever be able to match the 54 flat pierce from Vicious Spikes? - Your values are incorrect, and pay attention that AP ration convert all flat phys into pierce (for instance cadence and DM flat phys, devotions flat phys) not just weapon dmg value

It seems the optimal components would be Haunted Steel in a Slicer and Vicious Spikes in a non-slicer? In other words Vicious Spikes is better in all instances than a Blessed Whetstone? - Personally I wouldn’t use HS, seek additional ADCTH from other sources

If no ADctH is required two Vicious Spikes? That would add 108 flat pierce to each weapon? - You can use that especially if 2 same types aura bug still works

Red text

For more infos you can browse trough this http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47967

[JoV]

4. The aura shows a value scaled by your various %pierce bonus while the base damage of the weapon is not scaled, so you are comparing apples and oranges. Vicious Spikes actually grant 4+10 piercing damage so conversion should always be better, especially because it also affects your spells.

Just to add, AP conversion only affect spells with weapon dmg component.

[KoalaeiO]

Ok that is new to me. Based on the source below, I thought it was any spell:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=277466#post277466

[JoV]

Ok that is new to me. Based on the source below, I thought it was any spell:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=277466#post277466

I found it out hard way, when trying to make grenado, meteor shower pierce sabo :undecided:

[petrivanzyl]

I have Blades of Nadaan (BoN) now, which increased the pierce damage. But the weapons still have low pierce i.e. 45% and 15%. I decided to put a Blessed Whetstone in the Cruel Edge expecting the damage to go up. But it did not:

Before the Blessed Whetstone the Bloodreaper Claw should do 90% pierce (i.e. 45% x (1 + 100% from BoN)) and the Cruel Edge 30%, right?

With the Blessed Whetsone the Claw should be at 100% (at +150% pierce the 45% should cap at 100%) and the Cruel Edge 37.5% (i.e. 15% x (1 + 150% from BoN + BW)). But why is both weapons now at 100% pierce?

More importantly, why did the total damage go down when I put the Blessed Whetstone in the Cruel Edge than before i.e. +Pierce Damage is much higher than +Physical Damage?

[petrivanzyl]

With no auras the breakdown for Cadence is 100% pierce but for Shadow Strike there is still Physical?

Cadence does 2496 damage with the Claw and Cruel Edge with the Blessed Whetstone. Swapping the Crued Edge for Lightning Rod, increased the damage to 2566, even when some of the physical is now converted to Lighning instead of Pierce (and I have less than 100% + Lightning damage but more than 350% + Pierce damage)?

WHY? Is it a Cadence damage breakdown bug?

[JoV]

WHY? Is it a Cadence damage breakdown bug?

Cadence break down dmg shows dmg of your main hand only, you had 100% conversion from phys to pierce on your main hand thus you dint had any phys dmg on your cadence dmg breakdown.

Edit: For rest you should check your respectable bonuses for every type of dmg, but dont forget to include bonuses to specific types of dmg from spirit and cunning, ie spirit gives bonus to magical types dmg (lightning for instance) on other hand cunning gives bonus to physical types of dmg (pierce, physical, bleed, trauma).

[petrivanzyl]

Your values are incorrect, and pay attention that AP ration convert all flat phys into pierce (for instance cadence and DM flat phys, devotions flat phys) not just weapon dmg value

If you DW and weapons have different phys to pierce conversion, which % is used to convert other flat phys, say the flat phys of cadence? The weapon with the highest? the average?

[JoV]

If you DW and weapons have different phys to pierce conversion, which % is used to convert other flat phys, say the flat phys of cadence? The weapon with the highest? the average?

Depends on hand/weapon that hits, if you hit with main hand weapon AP value of main hand weapon will be used, if you hit with off hand weapon AP value of off hand will be used, if you hit with both hands both hands will be used (each one separately will be calculated).