Cast speed or attack speed?

Grim Dawn Gameplay Discussion
1

How do I know if an ability is a spell (and affected by cast speed) or an attack (and thus attack speed) other than intuition? With very few exceptions, things that do damage are just called skills or abilities :frowning:

Thanks

2

It’s attack speed, when you attack with your weapon, and cast speed otherwise. The only exception is Forcewave with Tremor and similar skills on items.

3

Thanks!!
Then I have been misinformed elsewhere - that means that %attack damage is transformed to health won’t work for any damage skill other than weapon attacks!! (so my whole idea of a shaman demolishionist is faulty…)

4

That is something different - attack damage converted to health works with any skill, which has a %Weapon Damage stat. Regardless, if the animation suggests you use your weapon or not. Also see Life Steal.

5

Mein Gott how strange
None of the demolitionist skills I use seem to have that component in them, damn it - well, good to know now. Someone told me feral hunger works with any skill that does damage.
Can I then conclude that none of these skills require to-hit rolls vs target defense?

6

I am pretty sure all Demolitionist skills check your OA against your enemies’ DA. IIRC skills like Sigil of Consumption (Occultist) are the only exception and hit always. You still want a high OA for crits.

7

Sigil of Consumption checks OA/DA. It’s Curse of Frailty/Bloody Pox that can’t miss. :slight_smile:

8

Thank you people, sorry I’m so confused, this feels very counter-intuitive to me. I think I will have to give up my demolitionist shaman and try something else with this information you’ve given me!
So do I understand correctly?

  • if a skill doesn’t have %Weapon Damage, which is a sign I am attacking with my weapon, it is a spell
  • it still needs cunning to hit (even AoE spells like canister bombs, mortars or thermite, grenados or stun jacks)

Thank you!

9

Dreeg’s Evil Eye (Occultist) and Phantasmal Blades (Nightblade) both have the %Weapon Damage stat, so Attack Damage converted to Health works for this portion of the skills, but they are spells. Just go by the animation of the skill. If you hit with your weapon, then it is a weapon attack - except for Forcewave (Soldier), so that you require cast speed, if you use the Tremor transmuter (see the [post=207636]fine print[/post]).

Yes, but there are direct and better sources for Offensive Ability. The three attributes serve various needs.

10

  • The Weapon Damage% thing isn’t so cut and dry. There are a lot of spells with weapon damage% as part of the damage. But if it doesn’t have any, it’s almost certainly a spell.

  • Cunning isn’t the stat you want to hit, at least not directly. You need Offensive Attack rating. Cunning gives you some, but you’ll get most from items and devotion points that go directly into OA.

11

Both attack skills and spell skills can have %Weapon Damage on them, si judging upon that is misleading.

Usually, attack skills are targeted, performing an “enhanced attack” (for example, Primal Strike enhances attack with extra damage and AoE). But there are some exception. The best ways just to learn about skill(s) you want to use, whether they use attack or cast speed.

Almost all skills require OA to hit, and you can get enough OA directly, even without investing any points into cunning. Investing into cunning is worth it only if you deal physical/pierce/bleed damage, regardless if those come from weapon or spell. If you use other damage type(s), then dont invest into cunning (unless you need it for gear requirements, of course), it’s a waste of your points.

12

Excellent - we have come full circle now. :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley: :rolleyes:

13

Thank you!!
It looks like I can respec at least a bit and save the concept, since I think this is right:
-enhanced wind devils (raging tempest) lower enemy elemental resists and that stacks with thermite mines debuff, so although I’ll have to give up the idea of feral hunger and savagery there’s still a point to synergies between shaman and demolitionist?

14

I think it would be good if Crate cleared up the tooltips a little (e.g. by adding some sort of a classification system, where each skill would be marked as an attack, spell, self-buff, debuff, allied aura, debuff aura…).

Also, there are a lot of important mechanics about DoT, conversion, adcth, resistances and resistances reduction… which could be explained in more detail in the Game guide

15

Both Shaman and Demolishionist support lightning damage well. They dont make a particulary good combination, but it still can fit lightning caster.
If you want to use attacks, then - no, it wont be a good combination, because both Shaman and Demo have their own strong attack skills, so getting both is an “overkill”. IF you want to focus on lightning damage, you dont need Demo, probably - better get Inquisitor for his awesome resistance reduction aura. Or occultist, for reliable resistance reduction still. And of you want to focus on fire damage - you dont need Shaman. You will probably want to get Inquisitor if you use ranged weapons, or Nightblade if DW…

And block. I want to know more about block, because it’s kinda misleading and i still dont know how does it REALLY work.

16

I can’t do both fire and lightning?

17

You can, but you’ll find trouble finding proper gear pieces. Some gear pieces may grant fire damage only, some - lightning only, also you’ll need 2 constellation for resistance reduction (not one), and some constellations also provide only fire or only lightning damage.
Often, you’ll find it better to focus on just one damage type instead, unless you use quite specific build/gear.