Channeling Skills Are Underperforming

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
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1、Channelling Skills are inefficient！
This isnt Ideas and Feedback ，dont move the Thread Here.In fact is bug.the DPS panel Calculation error or Part of channeling skill`s damage did not work
Those skills which needed Continuous casting or Channelling（I just do not know how to call it)like Aether Ray\Flames of Ignaffar\Drain Essece are inefficient,Their damage far below the DPS panel.
eg.1 Aether Ray
the DPS panel display 155,000


I`m sure about that it deals 3.3 hits per Second on Basic,6.6 hits per Second when you have 200% Cast Speed. Trust me CDR has nothing to do with it.

My DPH panel display 14,745（average）.Considering DOT has nothing to do with hiting speed,the real DPH is 13,845.
In this case it hited 6.6 times per Second(Trust me I triple checked the vidieo in slow motion),then the real DPS is 91,377+899(DOT)=92276
I have already get rid of the effect of Crit and Resist

Now it`s time to check my Calculation:I may missing something,the machine wont.The Statistical program named Grim Damage，last time I check it work well.

the Floating Data comes from Missing and Criting,you can see the average is lower than 100k，Considering the DPS panel display 150k,it only have 2/3 Efficiency.
I triple checked all those Channelling Skills even Acid Purge and Lightning Tether ,the Efficiency only 45%-65%.

DPS figure has always been inaccurate,I knew that.And I can tell why in every siklls except channeling skills.Such as it not counting all the Probabilistic events，like those Probabilistic weapon skills（Execution）\Probabilistic bouns（Storm Touched）\Crits(OA)\Probabilistic CDR(Time Dilation)……，and only counting one Projectile in these siklls:Phantasmal Blades\Stun Jacks……

The point is DPS figure inaccurate always because of it missing something.Exclude influence The Viability of the target,DPS Panle should always far below real DPS.In this case Just the opposite,system wont counting something that Nonexistent，this is not logical.So either a Panle display issue or Part of channeling skill`s damage did not work. Last time I found Real DPS far below the DPS Panle is the Armor BUG.

I don`t know it is a Display Issue or something，what I conside is which data the Designers using for balance, DPS panel or real damage?But I can tell you what,those skills are losers.

Even you get your teeth into Aether Ray making the DPS panel reach 400K（I doubt it），and your real DPS only 200k.
I think normal builds can defeated Nemesis of AOM in 10-20S,Considering those Monster have very high Resists,that means 300k-600k real DPS，Like these:

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av20413355/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av19499366/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av20083875/
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av19369138/
I knew dozens of builds,posting all of them will costing me couple of days(the Builders don`t allow me to post because they fear to get Nerf ),and none of them use those Channelling skills.

I knew this issue since ver1004，but I just didnt care about the Aether Ray,not means I didnt like it,actually I love it。Just it wont work out.
Considering we had a dozen those skills now,this issue seems a serious problem.

Think about this, the Aether Ray has almost the highest cost in the game: lots of skill points, massive energy cost, a lot of casting speed bonus, low viability since you can’t move while casting. And it’s hard to make the DPS in the data panel reach 400K, even if you made it, the real DPS is only 200K.And other those skills is the same，if not worse.

If their real DPS can equal the DPS panel,then that`s what I called balance!

It is a lack of Feedback making things difficult.So actually this thread should be here.Devs won’t be misleading by panel，but player will.Player is where Feedback comes from.Balance cant be done without Feedback.If the miscalculation of DPS formula be fix in 1060，all players will see True ability of the Channeling Skills,I bet some Feedback will change.

Then,I will do a real Feedback rather than report BUG now.
1、The truth is Channeling Skills is brilliant Idear but ruined by Underperforming.

Most important thing is their costs is very high,among all the costs the massive energy cost and can’t move while casting are most pernicious.
Massive energy cost force Channeling Skills prefer end-game skills,you can try to base on a Channeling Skill in low-lvl，then you will know how it feel be interrupted by no energy in every 10s.Players can bear death or failure，but get interrupted will bother them.

Then being a end-game skills the Channeling Skills just losers.Their Damage on the Panel seem equal to those popular end-game skills` real damage （I tested all skills end-game performance），In consideration of their real damage far below the Panel，so I wonder the virtual-high Panel data may misleading players.If the panel is beautiful，but real experience are weak，how they Feedback precisely？How much damage should be buff？Just ”feel“ weak isnt enough.No wonder buff them in evey recent versions.

Channeling Skills do have high costs，so what`s the Reason player choose them?High Reward of course！Which kind of the Reward we want？Damage and special effects of course！I never complain the damage of Bloody Pox,it is design for debuffs not killing.But Channeling Skills is for the damage,I found devs ADD a lot of debuffs to them,it is a good idea.But not means them design for debuffs.because you want to keep the debuffs from Channeling Skills to Enemys，you have to keep Channeling，means you hard to deal damage in other way.Those debuffs work very well,they save cast time from other debuff skills to keep Channeling ,let the Channeling Skills do their real job：Killing.

So Channeling Skill should be killer not loser，their damage need buff badly.This is not for 1% top players,this for the devs and players who love Channeling Skills.A brilliant design should do brilliant work rather than being a make-weight.And the top players just ignore losers.I knew this miscalculation in 1004，but I just ignore the AAR.Now devs made more Channeling Skills,all of them are still Underperforming.If the skills work well why buff them in recent versions？So how about deal this once and for all:after fix the miscalculation of DPS formula in 1060,try to buff their real damage equal to the panel in 1050.

2、Cost and Income
Balance not just about data balancing ，the rich and varied playing method also important.We can accept the high costs of Channeling Skills，that`s their unique feature，But only when their performance is Rewarding.I have said enough for damage,let us talk about special effects.Visual effects of Channeling Skills is brillian,but only work to the Dummy.In real Battle always became a Close-fight，because cant move during the Channeling and they cant kill A powerful monster before it get close with weak damage.So like AAR and Drain Essence you can see nothing but a stupid straightening arm in most of the time.And sound effects also too weak that only can hear the monster.Who wants to use AAR with out Visual effect？

The Close-fight style bring additional cost：high survival pressure.Devs add blood-sucking to Channeling Skill is a good start.But their real problem is sudden death.They cant have proper Viability to face-tank BOSS and massive energy(mage style) at the same time.Who wants to use Channeling Skill only deal with Minions？eg.4 Black Flames provide 28 PR，even Reaper of Lost s pet reduce -28 PR，not to mention the Reaper it self.（My lvl 100 character with 66 PR get 20K Physical damage from Reaper in Normal difficulty）I am tired of BOSSs threat always about reduce resistance.

3、Lightning Tether
Lightning Tether is a genius idea.It dot not need massive energy and you can run during Channeling，like a dream come truth. Problem is damage is too low.I can understand low Costs with less Reward.But its too low to Input skill points.Why 3 Tethers cant tied to The same unit？Then its useless for most BOSS.And 5S is too short！DO You know how hard and BAD its feels to tied 3 Different unit in 5s during runing?In fact it only work in Close-fight，and just for assistant.If I need assistant in Close-fight any skill of INQUISITOR can do better than Lightning Tether.I afraid of this game only have one way：face-tank.
I know its hard to keep Balance between Close-fight and H&R.What make H&R work well is going to make Close-fight go OP.IF Just give massive damage to Lightning Tether,Close-fight style will still be the bigest winner.

So why not change the Storm BOX to a summoned creature just like Wind Devil,with more move speed and last more than 5s of course.A Lightning Tether always tied to a Storm BOX with sommoned limit.It will solve the problems like：how to deal full damage with a single BOSS,how to click precisely on 3 Different unit In 5s during runing, how to keep the distance between player and massive monsters,AOE is Underperforming by the main target been killed too early.With out those problems the Player is free to run,even with low damage the Lightning Tether can do brilliant assistant to H&R style in this way,and Close-fight style have the same single damage but smaller AOE Range.

1 Like
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>bugs

//youtu.be/G2y8Sx4B2Sk

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I’m not precisely sure what your point is here but it sounds like you think channelling skills are compromised too much of DoT damage instead of direct damage which gives the impression that they do vastly more damage than they show (when looking at sheet DPS). I have seen others mention something similar on the forums as well for Flames of Ignaffar.

Edit: Nevermind, just saw your damage breakdown and there’s not much DoT damage there. I’m not certain what your point is then.

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DOT is nothing to do with this,when i found the issue RAY even have no DOT

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You should rather count it as damage per tick. I am pretty sure that you missed something in your calculations. You gotta remember that you have to add cunning/spirit along with damage increase percentage. I don’t remember when spirit applies, but I am sure you did not add it. You don’t deal as much damage (155k) only because of enemy resistances; you don’t focus on reducing the resists to 0, apparently. If your target would have 0% resists, you’d hit for 155k per second. Also, every monster has at least 18% resists, so if you don’t reduce it, you deal less damage.

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DUMMY has no resists in Normal difficulty。DPH Already add all bouns Including spirit applies.You just dont get the point.

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You should really read and review the Reporting Bugs (Please Read) thread. It provides the information you should provide for a bug report, as well as what not to do.

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I think I understand what he’s arguing.

I think he’s saying that the sheet DPS calculations for AAR (and probably other channelling skills) are incorrect or he’s missing something that is getting him the wrong answer.

I don’t fully understand how AAR’s mechanics work but I remember reading from someone else on the forums that the 0.3s recharge on it does not pertain to how many times it ticks per second. I believe this is used for the skill’s wind down/after you stop channelling.

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I may missing something,the machine wont.The Statistical program named Grim Damage，last time I check it work well.

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Thanks the advise.My mother language is Chinese,I can only Post this when my Friends Help me to translate.So I Actually cant read.
Now he translate the (Please Read) thing for me ,I know how to do In the future.

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The sheet DPS figure has always been inaccurate. Case in point: create a new character, note the average Damage Per Hit, the Attacks per Second, and the DPS. Do the math and proceed to facepalm. :stuck_out_tongue:

I wouldn’t be surprised if DPS were also inaccurate for channeling skills.

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DPS figure has always been inaccurate,I knew that.And I can tell why in every siklls except channeling skills.Such as it not counting all the Probabilistic events，like those Probabilistic weapon skills（Execution）\Probabilistic bouns（Storm Touched）\Crits(OA)\Probabilistic CDR(Time Dilation)……，and only counting one Projectile in these siklls:Phantasmal Blades\Stun Jacks……

The point is DPS figure inaccurate always because of it missing something.Exclude The Viability of the target influence ,DPS figure should always far below real DPS.In this case Just the opposite,system wont counting something that Nonexistent，this is not logical.So either a Panle display issue or Part of channeling skills damage did not work. Thats why I conside which data is the Designers using for balance, DPS panel or real damage?

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I’ve noticed this is the case. The part I’d be most worried about is that they might be balancing the skill based on their listed DPS, rather than their real DPS.

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This explains why Channeling skills still Underperforming after Several versions BUFF.

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Never used one like these.But if there’s something wrong,it’ll be necessary to repair

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Just my 2 cents but i have to say that actually several times i had the impression that i deal more single target damage with a (for example) 120k dps forceweave than with a 230k AAR :undecided:

With similar RR adn without considering other skills ofc

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It’s quite observable how AAR is of under-performance. DPS stat is way higher than actually generated damage. It has nothing to do with the process of calc, right or wrong, just pure observation of DPS stat versus player damage.

However, why AAR is such an unpopular skill roots from its presence that as a casting skill, it actually requires a lot of face-tank ability for the character. It gets the worst that it can be barely seen when a target is next to you. The attraction of the mystery of a skill is simply lost. Hopefully, devs can work on it to make it welcome again.

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Well, finally someone report this issue. The fact that channeling skills cannot reach its DPS panel seemed has been a common sense in my community since two years ago.
Actually, it’s a consensus that the one who could deal highest DPS to single goal among all cast skills is Quick Jacks. In contrast, AAR’s opponent is Replicating Missile. AAR can win Replicating Missile by a narrow margin in the match of attacking Training Dummy of Homestead, absolutely can. After all, AAR can’t pass through enemies, cost massive energy, can’t H&R……forget these! Beautiful DPS panel is so important that can make noobs admire you, isn’t it?
BTW, It‘s weird that the thread was moved here. Maybe Forum administrator consider it out of a bug report, or designer do deem that deceitful DPS panel plays a fatal role in attracting players to devote themselves on unpopular skill.

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I’ll wage it was the latter…
and reason we have an under-performed channeling skill till date.

Though we get that all balance was done under certain threshold, the very fact that channeling skill deem work is certainly done w/o counting its nature to the target’s viability.