Class mastery points being refundable.

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

Seriously this is one thing that really annoys me right now. You say there is a bunch of diversity in this game but as it stands there is none… Lol.

So basically in these sort of games you are supposed to play around with the skills you like and build on said skills. However some of the skills require you to put a stupid amount of points in the mastery which can be anything up to 50 points. Now what if later on in the game it turns out said mastery is not up to your liking. Well that’s tough because you can’t remove mastery points. You will literally have to start the game all over again.

Now the reason this is such a stupid idea is because some skills in said masteries later game literally do NO damage and some masteries just feel like buff masteries rather than doing any actual damage. Now if you chose a buff mastery in the early game not realizing what said mastery was for then you would have came to the same conclusion as I did. You have to restart your character all over again for it to probably happen again.

On top of this all I keep seeing replies from people is “use the grim calc…”

I shouldn’t have to use this stupid thing just to prepare my character ahead of time. There should be ways of getting around this and the one way of getting around this is allowing us to remove points from masteries.

Lets go into the lack of diversity. There is a bunch of skills in the tier 1 list that are really strong later on in the game so at the very start they’re useless. Then the skills at the start that are actual useful are useless later game… I’ve looked at your build compendium and you have around a maximum of 3 builds per mastery… Path of exile and Diablo both have more diversity than this. Path of exile is free… For god sake Umbra has more diversity than this and that’s still in pre alpha!

My point is you talk about diversity and there is a serious lack of it in this game as it stands right now. Everybody follows builds because of the lack of damage later on and nobody can respec masteries because you are locked to it. Regardless of whether you like it or not. So at this point I have 2 characters that are completely useless because they don’t do any damage. I’m half way through the game…

I watched a youtube video of someone doing a build and he looked bored… Is this what you want it turn out like ? Where people play your game because they have nothing better to do… That’s how it looked in the video and every other video I have seen after that aswell

I don’t want to keep restarting the game because I can’t remove points from my mastery.

2

The build compendium is made by people who actually care about posting their builds. Most people don’t.
It doesn’t mean you can only play 3 builds per mastery…

3

No but it does show how much diversity there is right now. You also pretty much just said it yourself “People who actually care about posting their builds”

You realize people would actually care more if they could be given more freedom on what to do with their builds rather than just going for what is only going to get them through the game right ?

4

This subject has been gone over so many times IT’S boring! Give it a rest! As modding tools are available now you’ll more than likely find one that will let you reset masteries to your heart’s content. Meanwhile just live with what you’ve got at the moment and start a new toon like anyone else. :rolleyes:

5

Sooo you gonna tell that to everybody who gets bored of characters or builds ? Do you really think they’re going to sit there for around 20+ hours to re-level a whole new toon. Some of us like to play with friends aswell so modding is not possible.

Also have you ever though why it’s been gone over so many times ? There is a perfectly good reason for that and that would be the fact that it needs implementing!

So unless you have some relevant to say don’t reply please. As clearly you haven’t thought about what you replied.

6

“You don’t agree with me, so don’t reply please” is hardly a valid response either.

What he said WAS relevant, whether you wanted to hear it or not ^^

It’s probably a game design decision to promote replayability. It might be worthwhile actually reading the previous discussions rather than just shutting down anyone who mentions them.

Just a thought :eek:

7

Replayability isn’t forced… A person who wants to replay the game will replay the game regardless of whether they want to make a new character or not.

On top of this someone replying to me saying “This is an old subject now let it rest” is not exactly helpful now is it ? Nothing to do with the fact I agree with him or not it’s get everything to do with the fact that he’s not replying anything relevant or even helpful for that matter. Infact come to think of it, nor are you lol! :mad:

8

So far it seems I’m just going to get the same replies over and over again… If somebody actually comes up with something helpful then maybe I will come back to the forum. As of right now though the only thing you are all doing is defending something that should’ve already been implemented. This is an action rpg and if anybody knows anything about them, then that is diversity is key.

No diversity no game. You lock me into a skill set and you’ve taken the diversity away from me. Yes games lock you into skill sets but they have WAYYYYYYY more different skills to use from said skill sets. You have around 3 damaging classes and 3 buffing classes that feel like they do diddly squat against anything later in the game! How can you justify locking someone into a class when there isn’t enough to do in the said class!! This is a bad game design.

There is a perfectly good reason it has been brought up multiple times in this forum and that is because it needs to be implemented whether other people like it or not they don’t have to use the said feature!

9

that you cannot spec out of a mastery has nothing to do with diversity at all…

Now what if later on in the game it turns out said mastery is not up to your liking. Well that’s tough because you can’t remove mastery points. You will literally have to start the game all over again.

yes, just like in any other ARPG when you later on decide you rather play a mage than a warrior…

Now the reason this is such a stupid idea is because some skills in said masteries later game literally do NO damage and some masteries just feel like buff masteries rather than doing any actual damage.

then I suggest you look a little harder at the masteries both before and after picking them, there are no ‘buff’ masteries, they all can work as a primary mastery

Lets go into the lack of diversity. There is a bunch of skills in the tier 1 list that are really strong later on in the game so at the very start they’re useless.

not following that logic at all… how early on in the game are we talking about ? The first 10 levels ? then skip them that long…

Then the skills at the start that are actual useful are useless later game…

not true either… starting with two wrong assumptions will only lead to wrong conclusions…

I’ve looked at your build compendium and you have around a maximum of 3 builds per mastery… Path of exile and Diablo both have more diversity than this.

PoE may, Diablo definitely does not, in any case I prefer GD over both

I watched a youtube video of someone doing a build and he looked bored… Is this what you want it turn out like ?

if I made a video of me playing D3 I would look bored too :wink: That he is playing the game means he is not bored, otherwise he would play something else - which is why I do not play D3

I don’t want to keep restarting the game because I can’t remove points from my mastery.

completely unrelated to diversity…

then use a tool which allows you to, the game rightfully does not (I am fine with respeccing mastery points, but not with switching masteries)

10

Diversity doesnt mean that all your bad decisions can be refunded.
There is already too much - you can refund skill points and also divinations - nearly for free. You need to plan you character wisely and you need to know what you want to play.
I just came to ultimate with my first char and all is okay, I dont regret any point and know why? I was thinking about character first and know which direction I want to go (no copy paste guide).
If you dont want to think first there is one phraze in my country for you:
What isn’t in head is in legs :wink:

11

You have it backwards, the reason build diversity exists is because you can’t refund mastery points. If you could refund them there would be nothing to stop you from trying out every possible build combination until you find the best. The best combinations would be found very quickly and everyone would just roll that build. This is what destroyed diablo 3, a few hours after the patch hits everyone already knows the meta and every single player uses the same build.
What would even be the point in levelling new characters? You would just respec an old one instead.
The idea you are proposing goes completely against the core idea of this type of game and you won’t find anyone here that will tell you any different.

12

and that is a surprise given that you also only repeated things that have been mentioned many times before ?

If somebody actually comes up with something helpful then maybe I will come back to the forum. As of right now though the only thing you are all doing is defending something that should’ve already been implemented. This is an action rpg and if anybody knows anything about them, then that is diversity is key.

switching classes has nothing to do with diversity, no matter how often you repeat this…

If you want to switch masteries, there are tools out there, no need for the game to support it. No other ARPG lets you switch your class either…

You have around 3 damaging classes and 3 buffing classes that feel like they do diddly squat against anything later in the game!

sounds more like you have no idea what you are talking about… it also does not match your ‘only 3 builds per mastery’ point from before…

just out of curiosity which 3 masteries can do diddly squat later ?

13

Frankly, yes I do think they’re going to sit around for 20+ hours to re-level a whole new toon. I’ve done it hundreds of times in Titan Quest and I expect I’ll be doing the same in Grim Dawn. There are a lot of people here who are doing the same in Grim Dawn.

You talk about diversity, but where’s the diversity in buying back points so you can make a new toon? The only difference I can see between starting a new toon and completely buying back points might be in the experience level the toon is at when you buy back points. Having never done it I can’t say for sure, but it sounds to me like you want to level a toon up to L85, buy back the points then reinvest them in a new overpowered L85 toon so you can blitz the game.

As you’ve come late to the forum you may not realise how much the devs have listened to the fans while the game’s been in development. They’ve taken quite a few things on board, BUT they have their own vision of what Grim Dawn should be and if a suggestion doesn’t fit that vision it won’t be considered. Respeccing mastery points is one of those; if the devs had wanted it in the game it would have been added long ago.

The devs don’t want it, the majority of fans don’t want it so it will not be implemented - whether YOU like it or not.

14

I currently play a MMORPG that has shrines that players can go to and have either their statistics reset or their skill points reset. It allows players the ability to theorycraft and experiment with the same class without having to reroll and repeat content (which just creates frustration).

After focusing on a specific class combination or experimental direction for their build, it would be nice to rectify any potential mistakes or undesired outcomes with the ability to reset points rather than punish the player by having them start over with the same class combination just to try out another direction.

Make it a scalable fee that increases with every respec but at lease give players the option to reset the base skill points yet STILL retain the same class choices (reset all but 1 point in each skill tree?), ESPECIALLY if a new patch changes the effects or potency of a skill tree so drastically that they would rather redistribute the base skill points and/or character statistics.

It seems that allowing players to “cleanse their souls” of previous mistakes (“sins”) at some temple would make the freedom to experiment with the myriad of class builds possible in the game part of the enjoyment.

Looking at the Class Builds forums, I can’t help but wonder what it would be like to reset my Warlock and try a different approach rather than have to replay that same class combo from scratch just to tweak how deep I went into each tree.

Please consider including this as an option in the near future.

15

This has been asked for many times and so isn’t likely to be changed now. Part of the fun of the game is making new builds and yes, variations on the same build. I’ve never found it frustrating to start over myself, though I can understand it would irritate others.

There are already solutions to your frustration. Buy all the skill points back at the Spirit Guide in Devil’s Crossing to remake the same class in a different way or if you want to choose a new class use the GD Defiler. Buy back all the skill points and then use the Defiler out of game to change the masteries.